unstyledcontent
14 days ago
Here in Minneapolis, there have been multiple anecdotal reports of ICE being able to remotely unlock cars, disable them, and even open windows. Whether its true, its certainly seems possible.
Its made me very concerned about public safety if we allow our government to have this power. I actually believe being able to own and use a vehicle freely should be protected under the 2nd amendment.
Im picturing a world where the US could mass disable vehicles based on the owners score in their fancy new palantir database. We should have the right to flee danger and use a vehicle for that.
I also think the second amendment should be applied encryption for the same reason. Encryption is essential to the people's ability to mount a defense against tyranny.
OptionOfT
14 days ago
Remote unlock is on many cars via an API.
It's the same API being used on your phone to remote start / unlock / open windows etc.
It's not unlikely to think that ICE has mandated these companies to corporate.
foogazi
14 days ago
> Its made me very concerned about public safety if we allow our government to have this power.
ICE says it can legally enter homes without a warrant
So we’re beyond concern now
gruez
14 days ago
>ICE says it can legally enter homes without a warrant
Source for this claim, besides the usual exemptions that are available to all law enforcement (ie. exigent circumstances)?
kemayo
14 days ago
Here's a representative news article about it (WaPo because they were first in the search results): https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/2026/01/22/ice-me... (paywall-avoiding: https://archive.is/bsdv9)
They've come up with a memo saying that non-judicial warrants can let them break in. This has historically been very much not allowed.
Edit: As a quick explanation, this is more or less a separation-of-powers thing. The rule has been that for the executive to enter someone's home they need a warrant from a judge, a member of the judicial branch. They now say that an "administrative warrant" is enough, issued by an immigration judge -- but immigration judges are just executive branch employees, so this is saying that the executive can decide on its own when it wants to break into your house.
mmooss
14 days ago
bhickey
14 days ago
They wrote a memo saying they could.
boston_clone
14 days ago
not saying you’re wrong, but we have to get in the habit of sourcing our claims! whistleblowers testified to Congress about this memo that began circulating around mid-2025.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/26499371-dhs-ice-mem...
esalman
14 days ago
Some people also need to get in the habit of researching a claim by themselves.
ghthor
14 days ago
Pretty sure doing your own research turns you into a conspiracy theorist; so I don’t think we’re supposed to do that anymore.
esalman
14 days ago
Haha that's a good one. Maybe just do a "@grok is that true?".
krapp
14 days ago
No it doesn't. Conspiracy theorists don't actually do research. If they did, that might risk invalidating their theory.
AnimalMuppet
14 days ago
At least some conspiracy theorists do selective research.
antisthenes
14 days ago
Selective research is an oxymoron.
The word for it is cherry-picking and it is better classified as a fallacy.
ben_w
14 days ago
IMO, the problem is that you must learn what "research" actually entails before attempting it, so that you don't fall into the trap of that fallacy.
Most people… eh. I don't know about the rest of the world, and my experience was in the 90s, but for me GCSE triple science was a list of facts to regurgitate in exams, and although we did also have practical sessions those weren't scored by how well we did Popperian falsification (a thing I didn't even learn about it until my entirely optional chosen-for-fun A-level in Philosophy; I don't know if A-level sciences teaches that).
IAmBroom
14 days ago
Your claim is not a source, so downvoted.
The people who replied to you provided the source: upvoted them.
xtiansimon
14 days ago
Just watched this yesterday, YouTube LegalEagles: “Unbelievable ICE Memo Just Leaked”
baby_souffle
14 days ago
> Source for this claim, besides the usual exemptions that are available to all law enforcement (ie. exigent circumstances)?
Context and discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGr-yWEu0hc
The TL/DR: administrative warrant vs an actual "signed off by a judge" warrant
Tadpole9181
14 days ago
And, to be clear, an administrative warrant IS NOT A WARRANT. It's essentially a memo.
foogazi
14 days ago
Source for the exigent circumstances exemption ?
NoMoreNicksLeft
10 days ago
>I also think the second amendment should be applied encryption for the same reason. Encryption is essential to the people's ability to mount a defense against tyranny.
The second amendment only protects the right to arms. Firearms certainly, others as well (swords, if anyone gave a shit about them, body armor for sure, perhaps even others not normally considered to fall under its protection like grenades). If the Constitution protects encryption or un-pre-sabotaged vehicles, the 2nd amendment isn't the portion that does so.
_DeadFred_
14 days ago
The government will soon be able to geofence areas to keep vehicles out of. Wonder if you will get a warning as you get close or if they will just cut out.
"Warning, you are approaching a closed zone. Stop your advance. Compliance is mandatory. Mobility privileges for this vehicle will be revoked"
B1FIDO
14 days ago
One time, I was in a shopping mall and I had filled my cart at Target. I checked out, and proceeded to the parking lot where I was supposed to meet a Waymo. I had arranged for it to pick me up in the designated "Ride Share/Taxi Pickup Area" which was quite near the Target, but across the "street" and next to the cluster of bus stops.
I passed an obvious and ominous sign that indicated the border of the "shopping cart zone" and immediately my cart's wheels locked up! I was mortified, because I knew it'd do that! But my Waymo's over there, man! What was I supposed to do about it?
Obviously, Target has every right to corral their carts in places where they can go retrieve them. Theft is a huge, huge problem. But I was also constrained in pickup areas and I had figured, innocently, that the "Designated Ride Share" zone was the correct place to meet a Waymo with groceries.
So I had to bail everything out of the cart, and carry by hand. I learned my lesson. Only drop the Waymo pin someplace where my cart won't be kill-switched!
NoMoreNicksLeft
10 days ago
There was an app linked here a few months back that unlocks them from your iphone. I haven't had a chance to try it yet.
lp0_on_fire
14 days ago
That exits essentially for aircraft today, albeit not automated. Try flying your little Cessna too close to the capitol mall or any number of sites in the world. You’ll very quickly and very unceremoniously be intercepted by other aircraft with big guns telling you to get the hell out.
K0balt
14 days ago
It only works Like that because fences are hard to build at 5000 Feet. Remote disabling vehicles is a very different thing.
SoftTalker
14 days ago
Some of this is over-the-top paranoia. If ICE wants to get into your car, they'll just break the window.
It's been very long established that nobody has a "right" to operate a motor vehicle. It's something you are permitted to do under the terms of a license, and it's fairly regulated (though not as much as in some other countries).
davorak
14 days ago
> Some of this is over-the-top paranoia. If ICE wants to get into your car, they'll just break the window.
Then when I get to my car I can see the broken window and report it or at least know someone broke into my car. With remote entry law enforcement or ice can get in and out potentially without notice.
Just because police/ice/thieves/etc can break down my door and enter my house does not mean I am on board with giving any of them a key.
baubino
14 days ago
> It's been very long established that nobody has a "right" to operate a motor vehicle.
You do have a right to ownership though if it’s paid in full and you have the title. If I fully own my vehicle but someone else can control or disable it remotely then they are tampering with my personal property.
HaZeust
14 days ago
"Mechanics lien" are a thing, and the government has plenty of machinations to avoid someone from registering their car or updating a registration, which does have case law for being an action prior to taking someone's vehicle as an asset seizure. Civil asset forfeiture also has extensive case law for being used with vehicles.
When it comes to brass text and if the chips are down, your right for vehicle ownership is HEAVILY skewed state-side if they don't want you to have one. Whether it should be or not, and regardless of how much an individual's mobility and freedom is reliant on them owning a car in modern America, it's still a de-facto "privilege" rather than a "right".
bigbadfeline
13 days ago
> your right for vehicle ownership is HEAVILY skewed state-side if they don't want you to have one.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you and SoftTalker appear to be writing under the influence of some questionable assumptions.
The fact that the government can excuse and routinely do something while getting away with it doesn't mean that the getting away or the actions themselves are right or justified.
The discussion here is about the compatibility of government's actions with the spirit of the Constitution which doesn't provide an exemption for habituated wrongs.
ndjeosibfb
13 days ago
brass text?
HaZeust
13 days ago
brass tacks*. That's what I get for generating half of my comment with speech to text.
colechristensen
14 days ago
>It's been very long established that nobody has a "right" to operate a motor vehicle. It's something you are permitted to do under the terms of a license, and it's fairly regulated (though not as much as in some other countries).
Sure you do, in private nobody can be prevented. You need a license and insurance to drive on public roads.
lp0_on_fire
14 days ago
I find this a very odd and non compelling argument
Just now many people have a) private land and b) private land in sufficient quantity and state that you can actually drive a car on it?
iamnothere
14 days ago
It’s pretty common to have unlicensed off road vehicles, especially in the mountain west. Farmers and ranchers often have at least one of these. There’s plenty of recreational users as well.
lp0_on_fire
14 days ago
Compare the numbers of farmers and ranchers to the rest of the population.
How many recreational users have private land in sufficient quantities?
iamnothere
14 days ago
That doesn’t mean that this isn’t true in a technical sense. It’s correct that it isn’t feasible for the majority of the population.
You’ll sometimes also see small communities with private roads that allow unlicensed vehicles, such as retirement communities, but they often have their own standards for what is allowed.
nkrisc
14 days ago
What’s your point? It’s true.
lp0_on_fire
14 days ago
It’s true in the same way that it’s technically true anyone* can buy a football team.
* anyone with a few hundred million in the bank.
B1FIDO
14 days ago
It seems like a moot point --
If you are driving off-road, or completely on private property, you're not really driving the vehicle to "go somewhere" or commute or transport people/goods.
It isn't really feasible to use a vehicle for actual transportation without using public roads, at least in these United States.
So what possible cause or reason would any law enforcement have, for going into a vehicle like that and searching it? I mean, compared to someone driving on a public road and "going somewhere" while "carrying stuff" in there? Nearly none, right?
davorak
14 days ago
Farmers who own their farm is the traditional group that would qualify. That population is much smaller than it used to be to my understanding though.
singleshot_
14 days ago
I do! I call it my “driveway.”
Related: 20 days until the Daytona 500!
mmmlinux
14 days ago
basically every farmer.
lp0_on_fire
14 days ago
So is the argument that only farmers should be able to have a vehicle?
direwolf20
14 days ago
ICE has to be near your car to shoot the tires out, but not to remote disable.
tim-tday
14 days ago
Having vehicle override would be an extremely concerning capability. (If confirmed)
Your take on “rights” if wrong to the point of insanity. You literally don’t know what rights are and should stop talking.
ndsipa_pomu
14 days ago
> I actually believe being able to own and use a vehicle freely should be protected under the 2nd amendment.
Driving is a privilege, not a right. People are required to demonstrate a level of skill in order to not hurt and kill other road users too much and there are other considerations as well. I, for one, do not welcome people driving with compromised or no vision, or being subject to occasional loss of control whilst having a seizure etc.
I also don't think that it's a good idea to allow a person to continue driving if they've previously used their vehicle as a deliberate weapon.
NedF
14 days ago
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SilverElfin
14 days ago
[flagged]
quantumfissure
14 days ago
[flagged]
nilamo
14 days ago
Just because we were a bad country in the past, does not mean we should continue to be a bad one today.
singleshot_
14 days ago
> Wait till you hear about a kid named Elian Gonzalez from 2000. One of the most famous examples
A brief fact check: Elián González was and is not a US citizen, nor was he the child of US citizens, nor was he arrested by ICE, nor was the raid that resulted in his capture performed without a warrant.
I might wait to hear about him until I encounter someone with more accurate information.
DangitBobby
14 days ago
People tend to believe that the direction of progress should be forward, I guess.
mmooss
14 days ago
Finding some precedents doesn't address the major changes. Do you really dispute there have been major changes in executive branch behavior?
> Wait till you hear about a kid named Elian Gonzalez
Elian's mother died at sea, trying to reach the US from Cuba with Elian. Elian's father sought to bring the child back to Cuba, but an uncle in Miami refused to surrender custody. Obviously, barring something unusual, a father has custody of their child and the INS, courts, and Department of Justice agreed. There was an extensive legal process and also mediation.
It became a partisan political issue and after all that the uncle still refused to surrender Elian. Law enforcement forcibly removed the child and gave custody to the father.
I don't see how that is related to the current warrantless home invasion policy.
quantumfissure
14 days ago
> Do you really dispute there have been major changes in executive branch behavior?
No, but recent actions in the last 20 years, and certainly the last year have absolutely proven to me the Executive Branch, as I've been saying since the Reagan administration, has always had too much power.
> I don't see how that is related to the current warrantless home invasion policy.
While I agree, the point is the methods are the same as they were back then. INS and Border Patrol is exempt from (some) warrants. Border Patrol handled that raid. Badly.
I mean, we can talk about other Executive branches abusing their power all day (Waco; Homeland Security/TSA searches; DEA Searches; Iran-Contra; CIA Operations in the 60s-80's) etc... the point is, nothing ever changes.
singleshot_
14 days ago
> INS and Border Patrol is exempt from (some) warrants. Border Patrol handled that raid. Badly.
INS does not exist. While an agency may be exempt from (some) warrants, it is an undisputed fact that the raid that resulted in the capture of Elián González included a valid search warrant.
lp0_on_fire
14 days ago
You’re being pedantic. INS was rolled into the homeland security umbrella in the early 2003s. The poster was obviously using an old name.
singleshot_
13 days ago
It's far better to be pedantic than to constantly spout misinformation.
IAmBroom
14 days ago
"BSAB" Fallacy detected.
scotty79
14 days ago
> if we allow our government
This is so tiresome when people who don't have a single tank think they are in a position to allow people with tanks to do this or that.
Things happen because their value for people in power exceeds the value of your consent. And you have fewer and fewer ways to make your consent any more valuable to cross the threshold of relevancy.
I know it's an attractive illusion to believe that people have a say. But it's time to shake it off because this veil is one of the things used for control.
Ancapistani
14 days ago
You underestimate both the capacity of an armed citizenry and the hardware that we have at our disposal.
There are in fact privately owned tanks in the US.
larkost
14 days ago
This is misleading. While there are privately owned tanks, they are all old, and lack any weapons (other than as a battering ram).
They likely could cause a lot of trouble for a local police force, but would not stand up to any infantry force in the world.
So in an actual conflict with the U.S. government, none of those tanks would be more than symbolic. And whole a general gorilla insurrection in the U.S. would be nasty, examples like Wako demonstrate that even mid-sized stands would be severely overwhelmed.
The whole idea that a Second-Amendment rebellion in the U.S., absent the military joining on the side of the rebellion, is just a fantasy.
Ancapistani
14 days ago
It is misleading, but not for the reasons you state.
There are private tanks in the US with functional weapons, including both mounted MGs and the cannon. In fact, there’s a place in Uvalde, TX that will let you come drive and shoot theirs for a couple grand.
> none of those tanks would be more than symbolic
Correct, but that’s not why. A tank would be worse than useless in an insurgency.
> The whole idea that a Second-Amendment rebellion in the U.S., absent the military joining on the side of the rebellion, is just a fantasy.
No one is seriously suggesting going up against the US military with an irregular force in the US. The point is that an armed citizenry cannot be subjugated without destroying everything worth having. It’s a suicide pact between the People and the state.
seanmcdirmid
14 days ago
I thought the point of an armed citizenry is so that they could shoot at each other as both sides think the other has gone bad. Let’s face it, even right now it isn’t the people unified for or against the government, it’s roughly two groups of people that hate each other, one side has control of the federal government, the other side has control of some local and state governments, either side sees the other as tyrannical, and it’s just luck that they haven’t started shooting at each other yet.
This idea that citizens would somehow unite against a tyrannical government has always been a fantasy, even during the revolutionary war.
psunavy03
14 days ago
Tell that to the Mujahedeen, the Taliban, the Viet Cong, Mao, and George Washington.
Just because the government has tanks does not mean "we have tanks and nukes, therefore we'll win" has proven true across military history.
Hasz
14 days ago
The US has lost multiple wars to goat herders in pickup trucks with small arms.
As Ukraine has demonstrated, a shaped charge and consumer drone is highly effective against even heavy mechanized armor. ERA doesn't work well for multiple hits, and drones and HMX/RDX are cheap.
user
14 days ago
scotty79
14 days ago
Tell your history lesson to a Reaper drone. You can see how modern version of people's insurgency could look like in modern Gaza. This is exactly how would citizens vs. US play out. With Palantir painting the targets on the appropriate backs and declaring anyone in the blast radius as domestic terrorist.
bluGill
14 days ago
What makes you think the army will go along with it? Sure some will, but expect many soldiers will rebel.
_DeadFred_
14 days ago
The Navy is currently blowing up random boats in the Caribbean (including double taps on survivors) because reasons.
ben_w
14 days ago
Sure, and from what I hear that's at the level of "war crimes", but those civilians the US armed forces are killing aren't US civilians.
People sign up for a variety of reasons; to keep their own safe is one of them, and that reason is incompatible with being the aggressor in a civil war.
_DeadFred_
14 days ago
Bro the way you brush off the US military already moving into the 'murderous war crimes' phase and thinking there is an upper bounds of the direction already in motion.
Did you think you would ever so casually brush off the US Navy straight murdering people with 'sure, we're doing that but...'?
Edit: A large group of Federal agents just murdered a 37 something American on the street, on video. He had a permit to carry, and his largest crime appears to have been traffic tickets. Prior to shooting him to death they were video'd pistol whipping his face.
These people are just fine with murdering Americans.
ben_w
13 days ago
> Did you think you would ever so casually brush off the US Navy straight murdering people with 'sure, we're doing that but...'?
As I'm not American, I was already in the set of people they'd be willing to kill when ordered.
Are *the military* more likely to kill other Americans today? I do not think so.
But as I'm not American, I'm more worried that the chance of a B83 heading my way has gone from "No way!" to "3%".
> A large group of Federal agents just murdered a 37 something American on the street, on video. He had a permit to carry
There was a kid a few years back, killed for a toy in an open-carry state.
My country of birth is not, contrary to what some claim, envious of the 2nd amendment; rather, it is glad to ban firearms. Even so, we see the hypocricy of killing those who exercise their rights.
_DeadFred_
13 days ago
Americans harassed my mom for wearing a mask during COVID when she was going through cancer treatment. They would rather she just died than 1. They wear masks 2. Be made to feel bad they didn't care about her dying.
The grocery store she shopped at literally had to setup special hours people like my mom could shop without being harassed and pushed to tears. She died knowing most of her community didn't care if she died if it inconvenienced them. 1 million Americans died and today they say 'COVID wasn't a thing'. 1 million Americans died and they say it's nothing.
Americans don't care who dies. They/we are fucking trash now. My grandfathers' generation were good people but whoever we are now, we are so lost. I grew up on Star Trek TNG American ideals and grew up Catholic and believing in the 'be kind' parts and thought my neighbors shared that but they don't.
ben_w
13 days ago
My condolences about your mum; I lost mine during the pandemic, though Alzheimers' causing her to forget to drink water rather than cancer, and the frequent closing of international borders meaning I couldn't even be there for the funeral.
That said, you've shifted the goalposts here: the one and only thing I was disagreeing about was the military. The military are the final arbiter of what happens, when the civilian government turns evil.
Seeing all the toadying and the way red hats are becoming the new brown shirts… I hope the ocean separating us is sufficient to keep me safe.
I cannot say, an am not saying, for certain that *the US military* are going to be not-evil, because unlike everyone else in the US federal government today the majority of the US armed forces are competent enough to keep quiet, and quiet makes it impossible to tell.
But what little gets out, from specifically the military? It suggests they take their oath of allegiance to the constitution seriously.
If the military is as bad as all your other non-military examples… well, even 25 years ago I was wondering how a new American civil war would play out, and if nukes would get involved.
_DeadFred_
12 days ago
I didn't know how to respond. I'll concede the discussion. It's nothing compared to your loss. I am so sorry that you went through that and that your mother passed. Wasn't going to say something, but I need to acknowledge how sad/horrible that is.
mrguyorama
14 days ago
They went along with Iraq despite knowing it was a lie.
"We knew they didn't have weapons of mass destruction when we rolled up and didn't immediately get gassed"
scotty79
14 days ago
Army goes along with anyone that ensures continual financing of the army. Review history of any putsch ever.
ben_w
14 days ago
The current US administration is not competent to ensure continual financing in real terms.
If the White House keeps up current threats against allies it may find nobody willing to lend them money, and therefore the government will be forced to inflate its way to balancing the books each year; if they follow through with kicking out the undocumented migrant workers (even if they improve their current behaviour and limit themselves to *only* undocumented migrant workers), they mess up US agriculture at the same time; there is also visible corruption and self-dealing within the government.
The question is the level, rather than the existence of these factors.
There's been another authoritarian in my lifetime who messed with farms by actually kicking out non-native people in the way Trump threatens, demonstrating even worse corruption, and that actually did try to fund the government with inflation rather than my hypothetical of "will be forced to": Mugabe. It didn't go well for Zimbabwe, and the US military can observe what happened there and decide if that's what they want to see in the US.
bdangubic
14 days ago
0 of them will “rebel”
AngryData
14 days ago
You really think the US government can bomb its own citizens with impunity and not completely destroy their own industrial base that makes bombing citizens possible? The US government would very quickly collapse.
Refineries and factories don't work without people and are exceedingly vulnerable to locals.
scotty79
14 days ago
At the moment the government with 15% hardcore support is rounding up people on the streets en masse, violating decades of established practices, while harming industrial base that depend on work of those people. And somehow pretty much everyone peacefully goes along with it. Or get occasionally shot.
amenhotep
14 days ago
That is exactly the point. It's working because everyone is peacefully going along with it. They have the consent - or at least acquiescence - of the governed. That's why they have no issues.
It is, therefore, not remotely relevant to your post starting this whole thread off saying that the consent of the governed is irrelevant and all you need is tanks.
scotty79
14 days ago
> They have the consent - or at least acquiescence - of the governed.
They don't have the consent. And all they needed to get acquiescence was a bunch of poorly trained goons with masks, weapons, suv-s and official mandate. Not a single tank was needed yet.
Consent is irrelevant.
The only saving grace is that actual people with tanks (ie military) might at some point say 'nah'. Which I think they did in case of Greenland. Simply because it was too weird for them as opposed to Venezuela and Iran.
direwolf20
14 days ago
GP is implying if you aren't committing terrorism, you support the regime. Which is... certainly an opinion.
AngryData
14 days ago
And? Minnesota is under strike right now and Arizona's AG just told its citizens that they can legally shoot ICE if they don't properly identify themselves or have a warrant or legal cause to arrest them. Still 95% of the nation is operating as normal, but that isn't possible when people are being actively bombed.
scotty79
14 days ago
You can't imagine 95% of the nation operating as normal when they see in the news that another armed domestic terrorist cell got bombed every few days while being told the country is safer now?
tartoran
14 days ago
Fear makes a lot of well intended people comply.
nilamo
14 days ago
The US government has made it pretty clear that we're two countries. There's the USA, and "democratic-controlled cesspools". Dropping a bomb on Chicago isn't that nuts when you don't think of Chicago as part of your country.
user
14 days ago
pjc50
14 days ago
Jan 6th worked, and they didn't even successfully take and hold the Capitol.
dttze
14 days ago
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