It will also funnel large amounts of revenue out of every city into s/SF/Bay Area. Currently around 35% of the money spent on Uber/Lyft stays in the local economy. Waymo in SF still employs a large number of highly paid engineers who are paid the money which used to move through SF via Uber/Lyft. And those SF engineers spend a decent chunk of it locally on food, art, entertainment, and various other services - so it has (somewhat) less of an effect on the city's overall economy/total employment.

Waymo in Miami won't be locally re-spending nearly as much of Miami's money as Uber/Lyft did. Significantly more of it will be removed from Miami with each ride. This might be even more pronounced for cities like Houston, which don't attract tourism from Waymo staff.

I forsee the cost of travel increasing quite a lot.

Private cars will end up 2nd class citizens with 'waymo lanes' and sky high insurance costs, pushing everyone to self driving taxi services who have a really high cost per mile compared to your own car, since they have a huge debt to pay back to investors so will never get down to the $0.15 per mile that driving your own old car costs.

I wonder how they will impact traffic. Rideshare has already added traffic according to some studies I've read.

Basically, instead of someone going from point A (current location with own car nearby) to point B (destination), Point A becomes the destination of the previous passenger, and point B and C were the previous points A and B. So a single trip adds one more leg.

It might reduce the need for parking... potentially. But there will still need to be a certain amount of time dedicated to charging for these cars that requires parking.

If private car ownership continues increasing in cost, and households become increasingly cost burdened (transportation is already the second highest cost for households), then I wonder how this will impact demand for housing in areas dependent on cars.

Curious on the outcomes here. I think the best thing we can do for city transportation is increasing the number of viable transportation options. Waymo is one option amongst the options dependent on roads, but walking, biking, and transit should still be a priority so that we maintain competition amongst transportation modes.

I would hope so, but it's not yet clear if the economics pan out for large scale deployment. The ride is amazing, but the sensor-laden cars are also very expensive.

The only sensible aspect of Elon's boneheaded move to remove non-camera sensors from Tesla models is the drive to reduce costs, because low costs are essential for mass adoption. Yes, sensors are rapidly dropping in cost, making the move even more boneheaded, but the theory is sound.

Some Waymo exec claimed that they are seeing very encouraging unit economics, which gives me hope for mass diffusion, but we'll only know when the rubber actually hits the road (heheheh).

Waymos are prevalent in LA.

I’m skeptical. Is the presence of a human driver keeping you from using Uber/Lyft/taxis more than you currently are? Why would you think removing a driver will lead to more ride share trips? Capitalism is going to do its thing, so between the touted benefits of driverless ride shares and capitalist economics, could you please explain how exactly our city landscapes, namely parking lots, will be revolutionized in any way, shape, or form other than zombie lots occupied Waymos endlessly arranging and charging themselves? Forgive my cynicism, it feels like I’ve seen this how this dream turns out many times before.

My prediction is it will make our cities worse. In 30 years every family will want one self driving car per person in the household

We've had it for a few years in SF and, while it's very convenient, I haven't witnessed the revolution you speak of. Judging from the traffic, people still mostly get around in their personal vehicles. There's about as much parking as before and it's still a nightmare. But I'd like to believe.

Have you watched them operate in a downpour? They've so far only been tested in semiarid locales.

I live in the city and as much as I'd like to be car free waymo doesn't do it (yet). I take frequent weekend trips that travel (I assume) outside of waymos range. Once waymo supports car rentals I could consider getting rid of mine.

Any idea how much they cost? Because for me the main use is mostly one off rides to the city to have drinks with friends and go there and come home safely. I live in Central Florida, I mostly use Uber or Lyft for these scenarios.

Can you elaborate? Are you saying you think people are going to give up their cars because Waymo is available?

Do they have microphones inside the car? How do you know? That "feeling" of privacy probably encourages people to talk more openly, which if there are microphones inside...

> It should be significantly less to the point it drives Uber out of business.

Prices are rarely based on cost, and more often based on what a customer is willing to pay. Waymo is a better experience than Uber (predictable, safe, clean, quiet, etc.), so it makes sense people would be willing to pay more.

> Is Waymo close to bankruptcy, unable to be profitable, or are they just greedy?

No x 3

This is like the argument that ebooks should cost less than paper books.

Not that I disagree but it's never gonna happen. more money > money

The cars are extremely expensive and they have a 100 billion investment to recoup. I assume they are still losing money on each ride.

Are there indications that Waymo vehicles are sitting around idle? If so, then yes, they should reduce the price to attract customers. If they are essentially running at capacity with their current prices, why wouldn't they charge more? For the novelty, etc..

Waymo can easily charge a premium for not having a driver in the seat. Privacy and physical security guaranteed? Also not dealing with the moral implications of what the driver is receiving in terms of compensation (or in the case of uber, not).

They're, in my customer impression, quite a world different.

Having feared death in a Uber one too many times, I would definitely pay a premium over Uber for a waymo.

I assume that's simply a calculation they do of how much their revenue will change if they adjust the prices up or down. Until it makes financial sense to lower prices, they can wait on trying to capture the market. I would guess they're working on making the cars and equipment cheaper before massively scaling up.

Waymo is annoying only _available_ through Uber in some cities - notably Austin. Even more annoyingly, you can't choose whether you want to accept human drivers or just Waymo vehicles.

Weirdly (well not for me it's a charter metal festival cruise) I am too and interested in doing the same. Typically we use Uber and it's been a not great experience.

I'm thinking that as prevalence of self-driving cars increases, demand for trains is going to increase. People will quickly start to enjoy not needing to drive, and flying sucks. It's a lot of investment up front, but trains become an obvious cash cow. Not to mention if you can pair it with real-estate deals at stations.

Trains do not solve the same issue as Waymo/Rideshares/Taxis. For example, if I want to go from SF to somewhere in the East Bay, I would walk to my nearest bus stop, ride the bus to the train station, then hop on a train to Berkeley. But now I'm a couple miles from my friends' house. Relatively few people want to go to my friends' house each day, so it doesn't make sense to put a train station there. Maybe there should be a bus stop, but if everyone there owns cars anyway, the city might have other priorities. But I, the dude visiting, don't have a car. So I hire a cab/Uber/Waymo to bring me the last couple miles.

Funny enough, Miami is one of the few US cities that does have a pretty large rail system. There are several types of rail and it is fairly fast and effective. You can even take the Silver Meteor to NYC with an average speed of 51 mph. That's a better average speed than many European lines over a similar 1400 mile distance. Compare: Brussels-Athens 41mph avg, Stockholm-Paris 54mph avg, Amsterdam-Lisbon 47mph. The fastest EU route over that distance is probably Berlin-Madrid at 65mph, and the Amtrak is cheaper, has no changes, and is usually more comfortable than any of those.

If you want (relatively) high speed, you can take the Brightline to Orlando, 236 mi in 3.5h aka 67 mph average. That's on par with Brussels-Amsterdam (68mph), Amsterdam-Paris (80mph), but indeed far below the marquee EU/Chinese/Japanese HSR routes of 150+ mph average speed.

More generally: large parts of the eastern US had a developed railroad system (and often still do, for freight.) You can look up old maps and see how widespread they were. The economics mostly just didn't work out because as car ownership rose, the population density wasn't high enough to justify them over cars.

> They have solved the wrong problem.

Human drivers kill >30K/year.

> Everybody can drive a car.

Not everyone can/wants to own a car, though.

> but I haven't met a single person who doesn't like the experience of Waymo.

Just last week a Waymo was driving on train tracks and the rider had to jump out of the car and run because the car stopped while trains came at it. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26KJvL2clTs) I bet that guy'd have something to say about the experience.

I've had Waymos in SF take very strange routes. It seemed to really strongly avoid ever using Market St, generally preferring a long right-angle route over the perfect hypotenuse. Sometimes this delayed me very considerably, doubling my ride time compared to the Google Maps estimated time.

That said, I've never felt unsafe or uncomfortable. But I have jumped out halfway through the ride and grabbed an eScooter instead.

not having to talk to the driver and picking my own music are my fav parts. the novelty wears off quick and it becomes normal

There's a lot of complaints about externalities, especially when a power cut stopped all the vehicles in a city recently.

My first and only Waymo ride was super sketch. Car slowed down to ~5mph in a 35mph zone and stayed that way for 5+ minutes as other cars were swerving around us. Felt like it was going to come to a complete stop in the middle of the road, I prefer real humans.

What you're getting at is basically the difference between probabilistic models vs deterministic ones.

Tried calling it and it left without picking us up.

> Why would I use Waymo if an Uber/Lyft costs the same?

Safe, clean, quiet, private, predictable, no tipping, etc.

That first question is wild to me. Having to share a space with a questionably vetted stranger is one of the primary downsides to rideshare apps. Privacy and comfort are huge bonuses.

in a waymo there are fewer parties involved. this should make you feel more confident in getting the bill paid, and knowing who will pay it

For the latter question, ask your insurance company. I'd be surprised if they care specifically that waymo was involved. If you don't have insurance, ask a lawyer what your options would be in that situation.

miami beach is a different city = different laws and regulations