I removed AI from my I Ching app

4 pointsposted 21 days ago
by jackzhuo
(castiching.com)

15 Comments

jackzhuo

21 days ago

OP here.

I built this project because I am fascinated by the Yarrow Stalk method—a process that is complex and full of ritual.

While most apps are just "click and get answer," my implementation requires the user to click over 100 times to complete the ritual. I originally hesitated to add AI because AI demands speed, whereas this ritual represents slowness.

After a month of observation, the results have been surprising:

1. I see users completing these 100+ clicks every day, far exceeding my expectations.

2. Users have left comments on the site specifically asking me NOT to add AI.

3. I also received strong validation for this "sacred friction" strategy from the Indie Hackers community.

This has been really encouraging. It seems people are craving the "process" more than just the result.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

PaulHoule

21 days ago

Personally I am attracted to the simplicity of the I Ching in that I can do a reading for someone very quickly in the field without a lot of explaining (off brand as-a-fox) so I pack an assortment of coins in my tail (ahem… backpack) though I am still looking for a second pocket I Ching so I have something other than Wilhelm.

jackzhuo

21 days ago

Love the coin approach for field readings!

regarding a 'second pocket' version: You absolutely have to check out Bradford Hatcher (https://hermetica.info/).

He is actually the biggest inspiration behind my development process. His work is incredibly deep, pragmatic, and distinct from the 'Christianized' tone you sometimes get with Wilhelm. He offers his massive 2-volume translation for free on his site.

I am actually considering digitizing his text as an alternative option on my site because his word-by-word matrix is just mind-blowing. Let me know if you find his style fits your 'field reading' vibe.

PaulHoule

20 days ago

That PDF is amazing but I would need some way to cook it down to get interpretations quickly. I'd like to be able to function electronics-free but I do pack a phone and tablet most of the time and probably the tablet is going to be part of another kind of field demonstration I do.

I find it interesting the directions that popular works and I Ching scholarship are going: on one hand there is the market demand for a system of fortunetelling that is more positive and on the other hand that desire to unearth the real text behind that interpretation -- and notably the Chinese language has changed so much in that time that a literate Chinese reader is going to struggle with it.

The important thing for me is something that is easy to run but still has a good symbolic and mythic quality to it. I don't really know how to run tarot for instance and don't really want to learn.

gsf_emergency_6

19 days ago

(Most literate readers will have access to a plethora of modern annotations)

http://www.issplc.com/upload/pdf/2025/06/13A%20Textual%20Stu...

>颐六三. This line means “Opposing the principles of nourishment; steadfastness brings misfortune.

As implied by

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46588660

So I Ching works well even for playing against the universe??

(When divination succeeds, credit the universe; when it fails, forgive the interpreter)

(Found that pdf while cursorily looking for a link between Tarocchi & Mongolian sheep bone divination, via either Mamluk or Marco Polo XD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shagai#:~:text=is%20as%20part%...

Italian Romanis had no need for the 3rd use ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel_harmony

https://old.reddit.com/r/linguistics/comments/nrg00d/vowel_h... )

jackzhuo

19 days ago

That quote—'When divination succeeds, credit the universe; when it fails, forgive the interpreter'—is absolute gold. I might have to put that on the website footer!

jackzhuo

19 days ago

That 'hybrid' workflow (Physical Coins + Digital Lookup) is exactly what I had in mind for my 'Direct Interpret' mode.

I actually already have this live at: https://castiching.com/interpret

You can skip the digital casting entirely. Just throw your coins in the field, note the numbers, and plug them in there. It instantly pulls up the interpretation without the clicking.

labrador

21 days ago

I had Claude Sonnet 4.5 and Gemini 3 do a Tarot reading for me given what their memory systems know about me and was underwhelmed but I that just may be Tarot, which I'm not familiar with.

More interesting was when I asked them to tell me which character I most resemble in the folowing: The Wire, The Sopranos, Better Call Saul/Breaking Bad and the game of Chess.

Both said I was Freeman in The Wire, Hesch in The Sopranos, Mike in Breaking Bad and a Knight in chess. I asked them to explain their reasoning, which was enlightening from a self-knowledge perspective.

jackzhuo

21 days ago

That 'underwhelmed' feeling is exactly what I was trying to avoid!

It makes sense that the character matching worked well—AI is incredible at pattern matching your past data/context. But Divination (Tarot/I Ching) requires Synchronicity and a sense of 'randomness' that feels earned.

When an LLM generates a reading, it's just predicting the next likely token, which flattens the magic. The manual ritual (shuffling cards or clicking stalks) restores that 'weight' that AI removes.

labrador

21 days ago

I like your take on this. It makes sense.

manfromchina1

21 days ago

They would likely pick the cards according to what your text looks like at the moment. You should at least ask them to use a random function. And even then they might keep picking according to the mood/content of the text.

labrador

20 days ago

Your statement would be accurate if Claude and Gemini had no memory system and each chat were fresh. I've been talking to Claude for two years so it knows quite a bit about me. Gemini less since they were late to add memory. Since your handle is "manfromchina1" perhaps Chinese AI don't have memory systems?

blinkbat

21 days ago

clicking a hundred times is annoying. I think you could automate the yarrow picking so I follow along visually instead of clicking.

otherwise, cool.

and I agree AI has no place in an app like this.

jackzhuo

21 days ago

Funny you mention that—visual automation was actually in my original roadmap!

I held off on building it because I personally really cherish the manual process. The physical effort (even the clicking) helps me settle into the reading.

But I hear you. 100 clicks is a heavy lift for every session. I will likely add that 'visual auto-play' feature in a future update as a middle ground. Thanks for the feedback!