lordleft
3 hours ago
I love Linux and use it daily, but this paragraph gave me pause:
"I’ve spent dozens of hours combing through Reddit threads, analyzing old Stack Overflow solutions, and, in times of true desperation, asking AI chatbots like Mistral’s Le Chat and Anthropic’s Claude for help deciphering error messages. Luckily, the Linux community is also very supportive. If you’re willing to ask for help, or at least do a little troubleshooting, you’ll be able to work out any problems that come your way."
There are many people -- like my Mom or Dad, for example -- who will never find this appealing and are likely to dig themselves into deeper holes trying to fix system issues on the command line. That's why Steve Jobs was on the money when he talked about a computer that was as intuitive as an appliance -- it has to "just work" for most normies. While I'm as frustrated with Windows as the next person, I'd probably just hand the average person a Mac mini instead of popping a linux distro on their machine if they needed a new computer (though if all they are doing is just browsing the web and reading emails, a ubuntu install is probably fine).
BeetleB
3 hours ago
I recently started using MacOS for work after decades of Windows/Linux.
I definitely had to, and continue to, search online for help. Sure, perhaps MacOS is more intuitive than Linux, but not by much.
MarkusWandel
2 hours ago
Opposite experience here. My aging mom had been on Windows XP for years and years, and then someone gave her a cast-off laptop running Windows 10.
That was such a culture shock. Endless pop-ups to do this and subscribe to that and so on. And it has gotten worse since then of course.
Instead I set her up on a nice mature Linux desktop - Mate - and that was fine. Chrome, Thunderbird and not much else. And solid reliable and nobody reaching in from the cloud with the latest attempts to monetize something or push AI onto you or whatever. You turn on (unsuspend) the computer and it's the same computer it was yesterday, working just the same.
cosmic_cheese
3 hours ago
There are plenty of folks with some (or lots of) technical capability who’d rather not have to deal with these things, too.
I’m in favor of Linux becoming more dominant as a desktop operating system but there is still plenty of work to be done in making it suitable for mass adoption. Denying that only slows the timeline on Linux’s ascendance.
ghastmaster
3 hours ago
There is a difference between someone like my grandmother who I've had on Ubuntu for years, and this user and people like me who are trying to do more advanced operations. My grandmother doesn't need to research for hours to open her internet browser.
mkozlows
3 hours ago
It gave me pause in the sense that it doesn't feel true.
I mean, yes, I've had to look things up to see how to do things in Linux. I've also had to do that on MacOS. (Just the other day, I couldn't remember what the Task Manager-equivalent on MacOS was, and nothing I typed into the launcher was coming up with an appropriate app, so I had to ask the robot what it was named.)
But dozens of hours? Maybe back in the Red Hat 4.2 days, but not now. Some of that is obviously just that I have a lot of knowledge about things, but even so.
queenkjuul
an hour ago
Some advanced uses from Windows that are very easy can be very difficult on Linux still. PipeWire, for example, while more stable overall, has made getting my audio routing all correct (e.g. for streaming) much more difficult than it is on Windows. Once it's set up it's just as stable but it took me longer to set up.
I could see that among other things totaling dozens of hours for a Linux beginner. Power management on laptops is still a common sticking point; i probably spent more than a dozen hours on that alone before giving up and going back to Windows on my laptop. And I've been using Linux for 20 years.
1970-01-01
2 hours ago
I now say that these Linux success stories are just like saying you've been married for a year and everything is going fine. It's great that you made it to the first big milestone, but that doesn't mean there aren't legitimate reasons Linux is a bottom contender for user OS. A long, scarring evening of frustration and pain is very likely coming down the road. Will The Verge publish stories about these problems, too? No, they won't!
Linux-Fan
2 hours ago
I wonder if this is due to Linux being harder to work on or because it is possible to fix some errors which would be catastrophic on other OSes?
Back when I used Windows a lot (Windwos XP times...) I also had the "long, scarring evening of frustation" rather often. It was usually solved by a reinstall.
In recent times, the “standard” seems to be smartphones (I use Android). The logic of smartphones it: It works or it dosen't and if it doesn't there is nothing you can do about it. Like ... not supporting some docking station because its network interface is called usb0 rather than eth0 ... no bypass, no solution, buy another docking station.
Of course this is faster than debugging the issue and maybe fixing it for good or maybe waste the evening on it.
Effectively Linux giving you the option to do something about errors doesn't mean the workarounds from other OSes like “reinstall”, “buy a new one”, “use a friend's system because it doesn't work here” are still readily available?
queenkjuul
an hour ago
If only this were the whole story, but my Windows gaming desktop has been running more or less without issue (barring hardware failure), no reinstalls, since 2019. I tried so hard to use Linux on my laptop for two years but eventually gave up; i reinstalled Ubuntu three times in those two years.
Now, my Ubuntu server has also been running continuously since 2019. Linux can be that solid for the right use case. I've got a Linux HTPC that's pretty worry free, too.
Linux just legitimately has some hard-if-not-impossible problems on random specific consumer hardware, sadly. Until manufacturers start actually supporting it, that'll always be the case. Manufacturers have gotten better about it too, though, and I'm hoping valve continues making official Linux support more appealing for device manufacturers.
I guess all I'm saying is, some things on Linux still actually just can't be fixed, and every platform is gonna give you a night of extreme frustration from time to time.
tcfhgj
3 hours ago
Reminds me of C++ (templates) or Latex vs Rust or Typst error messages - good errors are possible
mhitza
2 hours ago
If you want a Linux for the average Joe, then you have immutable distros, (such as Fedora Kinoite) which are going to better suited also for old people, and those that don't need to fiddle with their experience.
> ubuntu install is probably fine
Ubuntu and Gnome should be avoided even as suggestions. Ubuntu has become less reliable than Fedora in my experience. And Gnome does Gnome things that are incompatible of the average users requirement from a desktop encironment.