73% People Detained by ICE Have No Convictions

71 pointsposted 15 hours ago
by gtirloni

42 Comments

languagehacker

14 hours ago

When the Cato institute publishes something like this it's all over. These guys used to be considered incredibly conservative. For them to submit something so level-headed and factual which goes counter to a Republican-led administration's politices indicates that the current government is being run not by folks engaging in good faith with our existing political institutions, but with radicals intent on twisting those institutions for their own agenda.

Please remember that 23% of those with no conviction but pending charges should be considered innocent until proven guilty. If you get hit with a traffic stop, you shouldn't be lumped in with violent offenders. That's not how our justice system works.

lizardking

14 hours ago

They are incredibly conservative and also very pro-migration. They represent the chamber of commerce wing of the republican party, and nothing about publication should be a surprise to anybody.

SoftTalker

14 hours ago

> should be considered innocent until proven guilty

Agree if they are charged with a crime. But is being present in the country without a valid visa (or overstaying a visa, or similar) a criminal charge or an administrative violation? If I park my car where I'm not supposed to, it gets towed. There's no trial or presumption of innocence. The car is where it is.

languagehacker

14 hours ago

There's a challenging burden of proof that starts even with what constitutes the ability to detain a person. US Citizens don't need to show anyone proof of citizenship due to a law that's been on the books since before World War II -- a law that was created after our legislators were disgusted by what was going on in Germany at the time. This means that for ICE to detain someone whose identity they don't already know 100%, there is a legal grey area where a citizen does not need to comply with their request. So how do they improve their accuracy? Sounds like racial profiling, right? That's because it is.

Your analogy of an illegally parked car is spurious because where a car may park is pretty unequivocal. I hope that what I've described here helps you understand that this would be like someone choosing not to tow a Ford but opting to to tow a Kia even though they're parked against the same red curb.

SoftTalker

13 hours ago

Good point and I would agree the burden is (or should be) on the authorities to be sure they have properly identified any individuals as part of their process.

flatpepsi17

14 hours ago

> If you get hit with a traffic stop, you shouldn't be lumped in with violent offenders.

Yes, for whatever additional crimes they have committed.

Being here illegally, that's what ICE is after (Immigration and Customs Enforcement), and they are fully in their prevue to send home people who are here against the law.

throwworhtthrow

13 hours ago

But also consider the new development with courthouse arrests, where ICE and the immigration court officials collaborate to 1) terminate an in-progress asylum case while the asylum seeker is in the courthouse, 2) arrest the asylum seeker as they exit the courtroom.

Some/many of these folks did not enter illegally and did not overstay their visa, but requested asylum at the border and were released into the US. The immigration judges are also not ruling against the asylum seeker, which would be understandable, but it seems the cases are being cut short.

I admit I don't understand the legal details, but it seems to me that this particular group of people targeted by ICE are not here against the law, and also didn't get a fair chance to complete their asylum cases.

I do approve of local police arranging the handover to ICE of convicted criminals for deportation after they've served their sentence.

languagehacker

14 hours ago

For sure, using civil power, since these are all administrative violations and aren't considered felonies.

flatpepsi17

13 hours ago

I don't care if you call it a Federal crime, civil crime, felony, or just bad manors. The label doesn't matter.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement is enforcing immigration policy. Everyone (and I mean everyone) not here legally needs to go back home. This was common sense up until a few years ago.

languagehacker

13 hours ago

There are a lot of reasons why people are here illegally. Over 50 years we created an environment in Latin America that made it dangerous and unlivable for normal, law-abiding people. At the same time, we radically altered what we consider to be refugee status for immigration, and introduced rules that unfairly put requirements on other countries that refugees going over land need to apply for refugee status in every other country, whether or not there is infrastructure or jobs to support those refugees.

This is all while companies reap the benefit of and build their pricing structures off of cheap, undocumented labor. We are profiting off of criminalizing people who are just trying to live their lives.

You might count yourself fortunate not to be in this kind of a predicament, but it may benefit you to consider educating yourself on the subject and having a bit of empathy for others instead of relying on categorical absolutes.

user

12 hours ago

[deleted]

deeg

12 hours ago

First, people should be allowed to prove their eligibility and they are not being given that chance.

Second, ICE is going way beyond arresting/deporting illegal aliens. In Boston they stopped a swearing-in ceremony literally minutes before immigrants were about to become citizens.

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2025/12/08/unspeakabl...

tartoran

12 hours ago

Yeah, people who justify ICE are really morally bankrupt and I would not engage in any conversation with them, it's a worthless exercise in frustration. They won't budge, they are probably very hateful people in real life and take pleasure in some sort of revenge on fellow humans.

EnPissant

14 hours ago

You are depicting this as some dramatic shift, but the Cato institute has always been anti-Trump.

rapsey

14 hours ago

Obama deported way more than Trump does and no one complained. Why is that so? Or at least the complaints were not nearly on the level they are now. The actual anomaly is the Biden era.

SoftTalker

14 hours ago

I'd like to know of any countries where a foreigner can be there without a valid visa/authorization and not be summarily deported if they are discovered.

languagehacker

14 hours ago

The issue isn't with the deportations -- it's actually with the change in tactic, and a lot of the extrajudicial behavior. Immigration is an absolute mess, and it's one we created ourselves with one bad policy after another. I'd recommend "Everyone Who Is Gone Is Here" to understand the 50+ year history of how American military and political involvement in Latin America created the instability which caused the refugee crisis -- and even created the cultural phenomena that resulted in the creation of MS13.

tartoran

12 hours ago

Change in tactics? This is as violent as it gets, the migrants being turned into slaves (paid $1 per day) while awaiting deportation, living in the worst possible conditions, possibly worse than jails.

sillystuff

6 hours ago

It was common, on the left (i.e., not Liberals and not so-called Democrats), to call Obama, the "Deporter in Chief".

Democratic voters always circle the wagons to protect the administration, regardless of the administration's actions, when one of their own is POTUS. The Republican voters do the exact same thing.

tsoukase

3 hours ago

A country that is almost entirely consisted of at most five generations of immigrants is cracking down on foreigners. In some levels the US is not yet a mature country and they don't have the historical experience as other parts of the world.

flatpepsi17

14 hours ago

Semantic games. ICE isn't going after people who have already been convicted of other offenses.

They are going after illegal immigrants.

Hence the name ICE - Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

tzs

10 hours ago

> They are going after illegal immigrants.

They are also going after legal immigrants who have any crime on their record, even just a misdemeanor from decades ago. There was one a few weeks ago for example of a Canadian who has lived here for something like 30 years, since he was a child, on a permanent resident visa. As a teen he participated in some normal but illegal high school shenanigan and got a misdemeanor on his record. When returning from a business trip to Canada he was stopped and deported over that high school misdemeanor.

They are also trying to make it hard for these people to defend themselves. For example in another case they are trying to deport a legal permanent resident who came here is a kid from the UK something like 40 or 50 years ago. She has an American husband, American children, and American grandchildren. A decade or two she wrote a check for a small amount and failed to ensure enough money was in the account. She pleaded guilty to the lowest level of passing a bad check and served probation. This is the only blemish on her record.

Not only have they decided that she needs to be expelled as quickly as possible, they put her in a detention facility far from her home even though there are facilities with room much closer to home, making it hard for her family to visit. I believe I read they have also moved her at least once, making it hard for her lawyer to visit. (I believe she also may have spent time in solitary, because she kept asking for someone to be allowed to bring her prescription medicine, but I may be mixing that up with another case).

Even if you can somehow make a case that every non-citizen who is legally here no matter how long should be deported if they have any blemish on their record, no matter how minor, I don't see how you can make case that they should deliberately make it hard for them to get a hearing.

I also don't see how you can make a case that they should even be in detention. If you really think there is a risk that they would run rather than stay around until their hearing, an ankle monitor would be sufficient and cheaper.

eightysixfour

14 hours ago

They specifically call out why the semantics matter in the actual article, in the first paragraph.

> President Donald Trump premised his mass deportation agenda on the idea that he will be “returning millions and millions of criminal aliens.” Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Kristi Noem has repeatedly claimed that they are arresting the “worst of the worst.”

When speaking to Trump supporting friends who employ illegal immigrants they specifically defend that it is only the "bad ones."

Sohcahtoa82

14 hours ago

> When speaking to Trump supporting friends who employ illegal immigrants they specifically defend that it is only the "bad ones."

They still feel this way because their news sources don't tell them about restaurants being raided and the entire kitchen being arrested or ICE raids on agriculture.

Problems aren't problems until it happens to them.

flatpepsi17

13 hours ago

Yes- that's a big problem. The business owners are getting away with massive employment fraud, tax fraud, and any number of OSHA/employee law violations. They need to be arrested and brought to trial.

If you can't run a business without breaking the law (including illegal labor), then that business shouldn't exist.

venusenvy47

14 hours ago

I hate how everyone overlooks the fact that most "illegal immigrants" are committing a civil offense that is not supposed to allow for any detainment like a criminal offense. And the criminal offenses that are mentioned in the study are mostly state offenses that are supposed to be handled by state law enforcement. There are a very small number of people who have actually committed federal criminal offenses that justify any detainment at all by ICE.

flatpepsi17

13 hours ago

Wait- are you seriously arguing that everyone in the country illegally CAN'T be detained? That illegals are required to remain free, and stay illegally as long as they want?

That's a border control policy known as "no border control at all".

orwin

8 hours ago

If they enter it illegally, that's probably a crime (I have no idea of what it's like in the US).

Of course visa violations aren't a crime, did you ever had to fill administrative papers? What if misfiling your taxes was a crime, regardless of intent? Do you want everyone who made a mistake on their taxes to go to prison preventively? Or only fraudsters?

venusenvy47

9 hours ago

Overstaying a visa, which is the most common way to be "illegal" is literally not a crime and is not handled by criminal courts in the US. It is strictly a civil matter handled by civil courts (which can't impose jail time, by definition.) Sneaking into the country is a federal crime (a misdemeanor for the first offense and a felony for the second) and is handled by criminal courts.

gtirloni

12 hours ago

Yes, you got it right.

deerpsteam

8 hours ago

lmao! how can you say that when they literally just killed a citizen.

mr_00ff00

14 hours ago

A common agreement I hear is “illegals/criminals shouldn’t get a trial” as if the point of trials isn’t to figure who is and isn’t genuinely those things.

Sohcahtoa82

14 hours ago

Why is this post flagged?

tartoran

12 hours ago

Simple, somebody wants you not to know these facts.

obikatsu

15 hours ago

Alternate headlines you could have posted...

27% People Detained by ICE Have Convictions

5% of People Detained By ICE Have Violent Convictions

kgwxd

14 hours ago

Alternate comments you could have posted...

paulcole

14 hours ago

Isn't it kind of logical that if you knew that if you got on the radar of the authorities that you'd be deported, that you'd do your best to avoid committing any crime (even a minor one)?

And even if that's totally illogical, doesn't it make sense that most people aren't convicted criminals, even those who immigrated here illegally?

This seems roughly in line with the US population in general? https://www.ncsl.org/civil-and-criminal-justice/criminal-rec...

gtirloni

12 hours ago

The narrative this administration is pushing is that immigratns are terrorists and rapists.

piker

15 hours ago

> No conviction or charge 29,075 47%

I mean, I'm not exactly pro-ICE here, but if 53% of them have a conviction or charge, that does tell a different story. That's surprisingly high.

sosodev

14 hours ago

The data does not say that 53% have a conviction or charge. It says that 27% do.

The 26% you miscategorized are people with pending charges. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

sergiotapia

14 hours ago

27% People Detained by ICE Have Convictions

5% of People Detained By ICE Have Violent Convictions

That's a crazy amount of people. ICE needs to do better.

kgwxd

14 hours ago

This comment looks familiar.