U.S. mandates more foreign travelers to pay $15,000 visa bond deposits

84 pointsposted a month ago
by hmokiguess
(washingtonpost.com)

132 Comments

epolanski

a month ago

OT but as an European who wanted to come visit the US again (been an exchange student in Ohio State in 2010 and been in US two times aside of that) I keep finding more reasons not to than to do so.

The two biggest off putting things are immigration (had few friends blocked half a day required to give access to all their devices just recently, treated very brutally out of nothing) and the insane inflation that happened in the last years.

Traveling to the US used to be cheap for Europeans, but the prices are nowadays insane for anything. Used to have a hard time spending 150$ per day in Manhattan, it's twice the amount just for a budget hotel. Went to see the Knicks vs Bucks for 40$, it's like 10 times the amount for the same seat.

Attractions like Disneyworld and such as well have skyrocketed to the point it's really off putting.

If at least immigration wasn't so obnoxious and I didn't hear horror stories from IRL friends I could swallow the pricing pillow, but not both.

rangestransform

a month ago

The NYC hotel situation isn't the normal inflation, but the hotel lobby bribing the government for reduced hotel permits and banning airbnb. The amount of regulatory bullshit in NYC to run a hotel is insane, including special permit carveouts for small independent hotels (i.e. the shitholes next to the Queensbridge Houses)

The other thing is due to the K-shaped economic recovery, where companies realized the bottom 90% have no money and don't bother to try for their business at all. Concert tickets have similarly increased in price and decreased in supply.

rayiner

a month ago

> The other thing is due to the K-shaped economic recovery, where companies realized the bottom 90% have no money and don't bother to try for their business at all. Concert tickets have similarly increased in price and decreased in supply.

You see this all over the economy. Since 1980, income of the top 10%, subtracting the top 1%, has increased much more than the income of the middle 20%. That’s why every brand is trying move upmarket. Disney World ticket prices have increased vastly more than inflation, because the company is willing to ditch middle class customers to chase a more affluent customer base: https://nypost.com/2022/08/03/disney-world-prices-up-3871-in...

This is also why “middle class luxury” chains like Sizzler have gotten squeezed out.

epolanski

a month ago

America is an important part of western culture due to its media exposure, from the news to streaming to music, etc. It's a strong hook willing to see it with your own eyes and not a screen.

Also, I have some friends and I always had a good time in US so I wanted to share the american experience with my SO.

But if for the same money I can take 2/3 normal vacations or stay a month in Capri..I'm not rushing.

sva_

a month ago

Anecdotally I can say that I was just in Boston for the holidays and the immigration officer was the most chill out of the 3 times I visited.

But yeah the prices are crazy.

epolanski

a month ago

Has it happened this year?

Because now you're required to list all of your handles on any social media you had in the last 5 years and any email you used in the last 10.

This applies even for visa waiver countries as of 2026.

This makes me nervous because I have been critical of the US on some topics regarding the news or geopolitics (e.g. the recent events in Venezuela).

But even admitting the us is a sane country protecting the right to speech, there are 0 chances I remember all my emails (I don't even remember all the clients I worked with but gave me an email) or reddit/forum accounts.

sva_

a month ago

I went there about 3 weeks ago. It was asked of me but only optionally, and I didn't do it.

rangestransform

a month ago

The Canadian border guards are still significantly more aggressive than the US ones

xethos

a month ago

The Canadian ones have to deal with Americans that don't realize the second amendment doesn't excuse forgetting there are firearms in your vehicle

That's why the American side presumably has "Don't forget about your guns" signs, while I can vouch for the Canadian side having "Don't forget pot isn't legal down there" signs.

The former is much more dangerous to officers than the latter, and justifies a more aggressive response IMO

lenerdenator

a month ago

> Used to have a hard time spending 150$ per day in Manhattan, it's twice the amount just for a budget hotel. Went to see the Knicks vs Bucks for 40$, it's like 10 times the amount for the same seat. Attractions like Disneyworld and such as well have skyrocketed to the point it's really off putting.

There's actually quite a bit of the US outside of NYC and Orlando, and a lot of it is cheaper.

PearlRiver

a month ago

Why not just go to Canada? Montreal is cool.

lenerdenator

a month ago

I mean, that's fine, though it's kind of feeding into the whole "Canada and America are so ridiculously similar" thing that people who want Canada to be the 51st state keep bringing up.

sammyoos

a month ago

Montreal and Quebec City are probably the two most unAmerican large cities in Canada. They have culture and history that is unique.

999900000999

a month ago

Our food is also bland horrible.

Theirs no reason to take a vacation here. Everyone is subject to arbitrary detention without reason or cause.

Asia is still cheap, has better food and generally has significantly lower crime.

Larrikin

a month ago

Our fruit sucks and we basically have no street food culture worth discussing.

But we have the best pizza in the world. Detroit, Chicago and a decent NY are just better.

The northern part of the east coast easily has the greatest concentration of amazing sandwiches in the world. It was shocking to me just how bad a sub sandwich can be even if you are in a different location in the US, I never found one I would recommend in Chicago.

Most places I've traveled have a single style of sandwich maybe worth eating. Although sandwiches like the Banh Mi deserve to be discussed. But you can get those wherever there is any kind of Vietnamese population in the US and I haven't noticed much difference regionally personally.

Brisket BBQ was also invented here and most countries do not even a bad option for it.

epolanski

a month ago

> But we have the best pizza in the world

There's italians all around the world. You can have a great pizza virtually everywhere.

I had a great one, and I mean among the best I had in my life (mind you I've been to the highest rated pizzas in Italy) even in Sangenjaya, Tokyo, Pizzeria Da Peppe - NAPOLI STA CA.

Larrikin

a month ago

Japan regularly wins best Italian pizza competitions, but those chefs are usually Japanese. I've been to a few of the winners in Tokyo and they were great but I still prefer a Detroit style over them

epolanski

a month ago

The one I went was pure Neapolitan thanks God.

> but I still prefer a Detroit style over them

We all have our Stockholm syndrome :)

ojhughes

a month ago

I really didn’t enjoy Chicago pizza when I visited, as with many things in the US it’s quantity over quantity and the cheese is not as good as you find in Europe

tptacek

a month ago

Without even touching this "cheese is not as good as you find in Europe", if you had deep-dish pizza you should know that's tourist pizza. I grew up with cracker-thin pizza from Fox's, cut into squares; the real Chicago pizza.

kasey_junk

a month ago

Someone really needs to do a numerical study and food history on deep dish. There is a giordanos (one of the big local deep dish chains) around the corner from my house and I would estimate no more than 1 in 3 pizzas coming out of that place is deep dish.

And I can’t remember a single time I’ve been with a group of Chicagoans and they’ve decided to order deep dish with the exception after drinking at Pequods.

As someone who was raised elsewhere but has lived in Chicago a long time I’m fascinated how deep dish became externally associated with Chicago while internally it’s so poorly received. It would be like going to Southern California and finding out no one eats fish tacos.

Conversely Chicago hot dogs and (until recently) Italian beef are legitimately different and better in Chicago, widely acclaimed locally, but largely ignored outside of the city. So weird.

Larrikin

a month ago

I too would like this study because thin crust is objectively worse than all the other popular styles of pizza in the US and it always felt like there was something else going on when I would see it at events, never at parties or on tables.

Deep dish is unique and has a legitimate claim to being one of the better forms of pizza. Nothing about cracker crust thin crust can compete with NY style, Italian styles, or any of the other styles of pizza. It basically competes with the rectangle pizzas from school lunches and is cut and served similarly.

The thin crust is better crowd came across to me when I lived there as a few different groups.

Gaslighting food b/vloggers on the internet looking for something to write about because so much has already been said about the actual best food in the city, the same as the ones that say Cheesesteaks are worse than Brocolli Rabes in Philadelphia for example. Or the recent trend of saying that American cheese is not the worst cheese created because it melts, which all deli cheeses also do. Smash burgers at home are better simply because you can use a different type of cheese.

Suburbanites trying to show they were better than people actually from Chicago and tourists.

Event planners who were cheaping out because they could order 3 crappy thin crust pizzas for the price of one deep dish pizza. Thin crust was basically the only type of pizza you would see at tech events unless the company was trying to show off how much money they had.

Deep dish is heavy so it was not always a go to food when I was hanging out in Chicago, but when people wanted pizza nobody I met from Chicago ever said "No don't get deep dish, get thin crust"

Personally I view Chicago dogs as the ultimate form of the hot dog and think they are pretty good. But a sausage with just mustard is still better. I usually would only get them when I was showing someone around from out of town.

Italian beefs are just a wet worse version of a cheesesteak. They aren't bad and people who never spent time in Philly might enjoy them, but they were just another confirmation point to me that sandwiches aren't that good in Chicago.

Actual Chicagoan's opinions weren't always better though. I wasted so much time going to different Harold's Chicken Shacks before realizing that it wasn't true that some are better than others, people just cover the bland chicken in the sugar sauce.

kasey_junk

a month ago

I have spent a lot of time in Philly (and more importantly Delaware which has better Philly cheese sandwiches) and I will never agree a Philly cheesesteak is better than a beef.

That said I don’t think Chicago is a particularly good pizza town. Tavern style is fine but I agree the idea that it in someways redeems the Chicago pizza scene is also not true. But the best pizza in NYC is not a slice either so perhaps it’s just the nature of pizza that regional variations only detract from the form.

But a Neapolitan style pizza, with good ingredients, from a proper oven and an operator who can really do it is much harder to execute.

Larrikin

a month ago

I agree not all cheesesteaks are created equal. When I lived there, there was still the corner $5 cheesesteak that wasn't that good but was only $5. But Joe's to me ruled supreme over everyone else. I've been back with people who thought they were just fine but not great from a place like Jim's, but then understood the hype after going to Joe's. It was such a good call for him to drop the racist name after the previous guy died. I still would take a corner cheesesteak over an Italian beef.

I always thought that if there was an evil pizza genie, if I could only ever eat one type of pizza but could eat pizza only when I was in the mood, I would choose deep dish. If I had to eat pizza everyday I would choose a NY style. If I could choose any style at anytime when I wanted to eat pizza, I would choose Detroit.

And if I had to live overseas, I would choose an Italian style because there is a conglomerate that strictly regulates it with a bunch of rules and most other takes on pizza have been pretty bad. Devilcraft has been the only pizza place I've been in Tokyo that has a decent non Italian style.

kasey_junk

a month ago

I thought Joes closed?

Larrikin

a month ago

They shut down the original location in one of the most inconvenient places in the city to get to and now operate in one of the more popular neighborhoods in the city. I felt lucky that I just happened to go a few weeks before they announced the closure.

tptacek

a month ago

I don't know what to do with the rest of the claims you make here after saying all deli cheeses also melt like American cheese, which they absolutely do not. Go ahead and throw a bunch of provolone in a pot and turn the heat on and see how long it takes to separate.

I don't understand the Italian beef / cheese steak comparison, either. The only thing they have in common is cow between bread.

Larrikin

a month ago

Provolone melts exactly as well as American when layered on top of a burger or any other hot sandwich. I don't know why you're throwing it in a pot? If you're trying to make a cheese sauce why wouldn't you use cheddar instead of American cheese slices?

Italian beef share many of the same components as cheese steaks besides the beef like the onions and peppers. The meat is also cut similarly. It's really just a couple differences in preparation that makes them different sandwiches.

tptacek

a month ago

I'm not saying you can't use provolone or Swiss on a burger or that American is somehow categorically better, I'm just saying that deli cheeses do not all melt as well as American does. Cheddar melts even worse than provolone! It's simply not emulsified the way American is. You are spreading cheese misfeasance. Mischeesance! I will not have it.

I'm a Chicagoan and like, the only thing I really care about, other than a more accurate sandwich taxonomy that doesn't place an Italian beef on a line of sandwich development with cheese steaks, is that (1) Chicago pizza as understood by Chicagoans is cut into squares, and (2) it's better than the deep dish stuff, which is a novelty. Is a NY slice better? Sure, whatever, IDGAF. We have the superior tacos, that's all that matters.

The meat in a beef is not only not cut the same way or cooked the same way, it's also not the same meat! The only "components" in a beef are braised beef (braise a ribeye roast and they will put you in jail) and giardiniera, maybe simmered bell pepper if you're a weirdo. There aren't onions on a beef. Definitely no cheese. Was there cheese on the beef you got? That wasn't a beef, they were trying to steal your kidneys. We have signs about this all over town, did you not notice? And there isn't giardiniera on a cheese steak.

Larrikin

a month ago

Al's offers cheese on all their sandwiches. One of the last beefs I tried I tried it with cheese for the first time and it really didn't do much to improve it for me.

Texturally they are similar but you're right the meat is prepared differently. I never had a beef that was prepared with the care that you see on first season of The Bear and had given up trying to find a good place after my first year after finding not much difference in the places I went.

But I disagree with you about the cheese still. Provolone melts and spreads just as American does. You can make a smash burger with provolone and the burgers fuse together just the same. It will also taste better

tptacek

a month ago

None of the Al's other than the one on Taylor is a real Al's! The rest are fronts for organ thieves.

I'm not even saying you can't make a smashburger with provolone. But it doesn't melt and spread like American cheese does. It can't. And if you try to melt cheddar in a pot without an emulsifying agent like cornstarch, it'll oil out. Gross! That's why people throw slices of American in with the cheddar (though we're a citrate household; citrate is American cheese extract, and it'll melt anything. Brick of parm. Celery. Masonry bricks.)

I don't have a strong opinion on beef vs. cheese steak; I might even prefer the cheese steak except I've never had one and not felt like grim death afterwards, going to bed with Phil Collins "In The Air Tonight" playing in my guts. All I'm saying is they're different sandwiches.

kasey_junk

a month ago

Point of order. It’s definitive that a ny slice is _not_ better than a chicago deep dish _because ny slices are the worst_. It’s not a statement of support for weird lasagna, it’s commentary on the practice of eating grease rugs.

ndsipa_pomu

a month ago

> But we have the best pizza in the world.

Naples enters the chat

Moomoomoo309

a month ago

I truly did not get that complaint until I left the NY/NJ area. Wow, it is shocking how bad restaurants are here in the US outside of a few regions. It makes me realize why so many New Jerseyans end up coming back!

rayiner

a month ago

The bad food is a plus. The most orderly civilizations generally have the blandest food. Almost all societies with good food are chaotic and disorderly. This is true even within the US—nobody raves about the food in Vermont or Utah—and nobody raves about how clean and orderly New Jersey is.

rangestransform

a month ago

What the fuck is the purpose of having a civilization if everyone lives like a puritan instead of enjoying their lives, also Japan exists to disprove this

nebula8804

a month ago

You don't enjoy the food in so called 'Real America'? Taco Bell and Wendys are all a MAGA needs so its good.

kylehotchkiss

a month ago

If immigration wasn't so obnoxious, the prices it cost to visit NYC, Disneyland/world or even the crowds you'd have to deal with at national parks aren't worth it. There's a lot of beautiful places in the world (including the country to the north), and I sense the political winds in USA will eventually change and the exchange rate "benefit" US currently has will dwindle.

seanmcdirmid

a month ago

Yes. A discount trip for me (American) now is a trip out to Japan. Everything is awfully expensive now.

afpx

a month ago

I wouldn't worry - the best parts of the US you can catch on TV or YouTube.

jawilson2

a month ago

Agreed, there's nothing like watching someone hike the Grand Canyon or driving through Yellowstone on Youtube.

user

a month ago

[deleted]

afpx

a month ago

Maybe VR?

atlanta90210

a month ago

VR is dead.

afpx

a month ago

Sorry for the knee jerk unfunny snark. Just a little annoyed reading complaints from people who can't get their vacation in when pretty much my entire neighborhoood is in panick mode because they see probability of impending doom rising.

geodel

a month ago

I think it is good decision on your part.

This whole traveling thing is not doing much good to the earth, to one's pocket, or to most of local people, cities, places one is traveling to (besides of course minority of people engaged in travel related businesses).

Travel used to be prerogative of rich or elites. A few more may travel due to work or business. But nowadays it is becoming an essential thing even for those like me who can't really afford or need. People who don't like or do traveling are considered as morally deficient.

rayiner

a month ago

Apparently visa overstays are the primary route for illegal immigration, much more common than illegal border crossing: https://www.npr.org/2019/01/16/686056668/for-seventh-consecu...

OGEnthusiast

a month ago

Which is odd since visa overstays should be more "legible" to the government in terms of at least knowing their name and when they entered, which should make them easier and more efficient to deport. Unlike illegals who hop the border where you don't even know how many or who they are at all.

undeveloper

a month ago

well, both are "illegals", one's just more likely to be white i suppose

FireBeyond

a month ago

Yup. My immigration attorney said that (when I was dealing with a brief lapse in status, due to a divorce and moving and due dates) "as a white person, and a man working in a high paying job", I was "pretty much at the bottom of the totem pole for USCIS enforcement efforts" while we resolved my case.

And sorry, given ICE's mandates, ruled temporarily okay by SCOTUS, that color of skin, accent, name are effectively "probable cause" for detention, I'd say her perspective is absolutely aligned with current enforcement priorities.

rayiner

a month ago

If the government was prioritizing people with darker skin, it would go after visa overstays first, because that’s the primary illegal immigration route for asia and africa. (There is virtually zero illegal immigration from Europe. E.g. only 0.6% of DACA recipients are European. They don’t factor into this discussion at all.) Instead, the government has been focused on border crossings from latin america, where the average person is half white. Maduro’s wife whom they just arrested is a white blonde lady! Kilmar Garcia and his wife are whiter than anyone on The Jersey Shore. Meanwhile, illegal Indians are flying under the ICE radar.

Clearly the distinguishing factor is money, not melanin.

OGEnthusiast

a month ago

It seems odd that the US government doesn't have enough resources to just go after everyone whose in the country illegal, and instead has to prioritize and triage based on e.g. money or melanin. I think people would find it more fair if they just went after everyone whose illegal.

seanmcdirmid

a month ago

By Europe you are excluding Russia right? Mexican/Latin American wealth is correlated to skin color like it is in the USA, so most of the illegal border crossings are from those with darker skin, not just the “average Mexican.”

rayiner

a month ago

I’m not excluding Russians. They make up a vanishingly small percentage of DACA recipients, for example: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/data/daca.... I don’t know where folks got this idea that there were tons of europeans overstaying their visas. Visa overstays are a route for Asian and African illegal immigrants. And however you slice it, those folks are going to be darker, on average, than the folks coming over illegally from latin america.

This whole narrative is silly. The government is prioritizing stopping the flow of poor people more than people who can afford a plane ticket. Obviously.

seanmcdirmid

a month ago

DACA are just dreamers, by that measure most DACA holders are probably South Korean (left over from babies who came here in the 80s and early 90s, and can’t go back because to South Korea of harsh conscription rules). I’m not sure what you think DACA has to do with real illegal immigration (actual adults coming to the USA and overstaying their visas, not just babies).

user

a month ago

[deleted]

ceejayoz

a month ago

Dems have been pointing this out for years, yes.

You didn't want to listen, though. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32051452

rayiner

a month ago

You should quote what I said:

> Visa overstays are a “bigger problem” according to whom? Could someone reasonably consider illegal border crossings a bigger problem because they involve completely unvetted people, as opposed to visa overstays which involve people who were at least minimally vetted in getting a visa?

All I said was that you could reasonably consider illegal border crossings to be a “bigger problem,” even accepting that visa overstays account for a larger volume. You’re tacitly assuming that “bigger problem” and “bigger volume” are the same, but my point there was that those aren’t the same.

And four years later, of course, we’re in a different factual scenario. The level of border crossings is down to almost zero now.

ceejayoz

a month ago

> And four years later, of course, we’re in a different factual scenario.

The article you linked is from 2019 and says "for the seventh consecutive year". This is not new info.

rayiner

a month ago

Quote my whole point!

> And four years later, of course, we’re in a different factual scenario. The level of border crossings is down to almost zero now.

Border crossings can be a higher priority even if visa overstays account for more volume, because of the different level of vetting for those two routes. But now that border crossings are down, it makes sense to focus on visa overstays. How is any of that inconsistent?

bitshiftfaced

a month ago

It's ok to change your mind. Kind of a lame move to go digging through someone's history to try to prove them wrong like that.

ceejayoz

a month ago

> It's ok to change your mind.

I don't disagree. Some users on here, though, are a little notorious, and my spidey sense went off given past interactions. One search on https://hn.algolia.com/ and here we are.

AlexeyBelov

a month ago

Yeah, rayiner is quite famous for his.. umm.. views.

TimorousBestie

a month ago

Persistence of memory—limited deletion of old comments, easy searching through archives—is a key feature of HN that distinguishes it from other forums.

I think it’s worth noting that he doesn’t believe that his mind has changed.

JKCalhoun

a month ago

It's strange to simply make it cost more to do so.

user

a month ago

[deleted]

ceejayoz

a month ago

Eh, I can at least sorta see the logic of that; it presumably costs money to find, process, and fly you out. Making you front those costs avoids having to chase you post-deportation (with very little chance of collecting).

chrneu

a month ago

Nah, this is a filtering criteria. This is pay-to-illegally-immigrate. Republicans are fine with over staying visas or that kind of illegal immigration, half their spouses do it. Iirc milania did it.

They only want rich criminals. Not poor ones.

bradlys

a month ago

This isn't true. Republicans love illegal immigration because you can underpay people and avoid a lot of regulation.

It is trivial to implement e-verify for employment for everyone. It would nearly eliminate illegal workers. If Republicans (or anyone) cared about stopping the hiring of illegal workers, it is a trivial process to implement. No one wants to do it because then Americans would unionize.

onraglanroad

a month ago

Yes, this has always been true. I'm astonished to hear you realise it though.

This is you being "left -wing" as you acknowledge something you actually know about is true.

user

a month ago

[deleted]

mapontosevenths

a month ago

The last budget included another $4.5 Billion for the wall. That ought to put a stop to it!

jkubicek

a month ago

Man, US immigration has been dysfunctional my entire life and it's only gotten worse during the last 10 years. I can't imagine being trusting enough to fork over a $15k bond to the US government. What are you going to do when you're safely back home in the EU and they refuse your refund? What authority would stand any chance of recovering your money?

chrneu

a month ago

This is very much by design. Republicans, back in the 50s and 60s, basically destroyed US immigration because of mexican farm labor. Lookup the Braseros Program and the series of mass human migrations that used to happen. This goes back to before WW1. The history is pretty fascinating.

They knew that they could make this a campaign issue so they did it. Then democrats realized they could also campaign on this issue without actually doing anything.

Then once a decade or so someone makes a few changes and the system gets fucked up again.

I'm in my late 30s and immigration has always been broken. People have always admitted it's broken. Then nobody does anything to fix it besides posturing/grandstanding for an election cycle.

kylehotchkiss

a month ago

Bounty hunting is legal in US, so I'm more than confident that there will be companies that offer this as a service for 10% and require phone/ankle monitoring.

ajross

a month ago

> US immigration has been dysfunctional my entire life and it's only gotten worse during the last 10 years.

This policy was instituted in August. Pretending that this is just an evolving norm in a pocket along the line of a routine policy spectrum makes you part of the problem, not the solution.

0xbadcafebee

a month ago

Reminds me of that moving quote on the Statue of Liberty:

"Give us your rested, your rich, your single individuals earning high incomes with special skills, yearning to stay for one year only, the people who don't need asylum from their high-GDP developed democratic nation and own property overseas."

chrneu

a month ago

solid joke, kudos. lol

3m

a month ago

Brit here. Went to the USA for a three week holiday this Summer. Had zero issues with immigration, or anything at all in the USA.

Had the best time.

FireBeyond

a month ago

Even the fiance visa program (K-1), which I went through 19 years ago. is affected by similar requirements.

It's set up with a number of safeguards:

The USC has to apply for it on behalf of the immigrant, while the USC is physically in the country, and the immigrant must not be (to prevent coercion).

But the visa is set up to expect the USC to be the primary breadwinner. I get that part of this is to dissuade "buying a visa" (but these days, hah).

But my USC fiance was a student while I was an Australian IT professional. The government wanted us to demonstrate that we could support ourselves for months while I found a job, but literally didn't care what finances I contributed to that.

Ended up that her mother had to sponsor my visa using her house as surety. For which I am entirely grateful, but bleh.

They didn't expect her to pay for our lives, but meant that if I used any government resource such as Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security in my first ten years as a resident, that the IRS (I think) could be asked to effectively bill her for reimbursement of every dollar.

cdrnsf

a month ago

I've been telling anyone I know who's planning on visiting or coming to the US not to do so for their own safety. It's no longer worth risking the potential abuse and invasion of privacy.

e40

a month ago

Hmm, South Africa is not exempt, because they are not part of the Visa Waver program. (No country in Africa is part of that program, according to [1].)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Waiver_Program#:~:text=As...

Havoc

a month ago

SA had a stint of issues with illegitimate but real passport being issued via fraud so think it'll take a while till they make any 1st world waiver lists again

ceejayoz

a month ago

Depends on skin color.

https://za.usembassy.gov/refugee-admissions-program-for-sout...

> Consistent with President Trump’s Executive Order on Addressing Egregious Actions of the Republic of South Africa, the Department of State is coordinating with the Department of Homeland Security to consider eligibility for U.S. refugee resettlement for people who are of Afrikaner ethnicity or a member of a racial minority in South Africa who are victims of government-sponsored race-based discrimination.

(That's a lot of words to say "white".)

chrneu

a month ago

A lot of the folks in trump's cabinet are pro-apartheid white supremacists. they think white people in SA are the victims. Stephen Miller is a great example.

I'm not disagreeing with ya, just adding more context.

Havoc

a month ago

>Depends on skin color.

Well that is happening too but is separate to what I was alluding to - mistrust of SA issued passports.

e.g. Ireland scrapped visa free access & appears to have been for this reason

ComputerGuru

a month ago

But Israel, which routinely denies entry (at the border, after flying halfway around the world!) to American citizens of Arab or Palestinian heritage in contravention of the rules and stipulations of the Visa Waiver Program, is (after Biden pushed to get them into the program).

kylehotchkiss

a month ago

There's a lot of tourism dollars/euros/yuan/rupees sloshing around looking for a place to go. Looks like Asia will ultimately be the winner, and I mean from east to west - Abu Dhabi is building a Disneyland and Bangkok is the #1 visited city in the world. India's tourism industry (think outside the big cities) seems to be improving very rapidly - every post I see from postcard hotels on instagram gives me wanderlust.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_Abu_Dhabi https://www.travelandleisure.com/most-visited-city-in-the-wo... https://www.instagram.com/thepostcardhotel/

tsoukase

a month ago

Being a European and former US admirer, I thought about it almost a year and decided it doesn't worth to visit any more. The couple of times I had in the past I observed the US life is exactly like depicted in US movies (barring the violent scenes). So instead of paying a visit, pay attention to some movie (pun intended).

kingkandu

a month ago

It is almost impossible to get international people to come to the US anymore, the few people who are willing to visit can't get visa appointments at the consulate.

Wouldn't be surprised if the World Cup sees half empty stadiums this year and tourism related places like Vegas continue to draw down.

hmokiguess

a month ago

was trying to plan a casual trip with friends and learned about this because the wife of one of our friends is Algerian, now he has to pocket 15k just so they can join us for a music festival.

mothballed

a month ago

Don't worry, some 'insurance' company totally not in cahoots with the authorities will pop up that will post bond for you in exchange for a non-refundable fee of their own. You might have to put up your car or something as collateral though.

OGEnthusiast

a month ago

Yeah I think Trump/MAGA doesn't want Algerians in the US so that's a feature not a bug to them.

user

a month ago

[deleted]

jacquesm

a month ago

Interesting, I don't get an article but just one sentence.

canucker2016

a month ago

W/JavaScript off, yes, same for me.

Had to toggle JavaScript on for the site to get the full article.

Izikiel43

a month ago

I don't find this that weird, maybe 15k$ is a lot, but being from south america some european countries require you to prove that you have money before traveling if I remember correctly, I think maybe 5k euros?

garbawarb

a month ago

I don't think they hold that money as a bond.

hmokiguess

a month ago

proof of financial stability and means of supporting oneself is entirely different than withholding that value as a bond

abirch

a month ago

It makes sense to require you to have a certain amount of money if you're going to stay a certain amount of time on a tourist visa.

Having dealt with the US Federal government, good luck trying to get your 15K back if there's an administrative issue.

joecool1029

a month ago

Why Bhutan of all places?

z2

a month ago

Seems it's because out of the low hundreds people total who visited in a year and were expected to leave the US, some large percent didn't leave, joining the double-digit overstayers club. https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2025-09/25_0912_cbp_...

nograpes

a month ago

Thanks for the link, to save anyone else the trouble, it seems that the rate for Bhutan is 89 out of 423 (21%) in country overstays. Average overstay rate for non visa waiver countries is 2.2%.

0xbadcafebee

a month ago

I don't think it was mentioned, but Bhutan minority groups have experienced ethnic cleansing and oppression; we used to accept their refugees, but now we probably don't, so it's likely that these overstays are actually people fleeing or related to those fleeing persecution. Another fun externality of politicians persecuting immigrants based on statistics.

darth_avocado

a month ago

Bhutan doesn’t have formal diplomatic relations with US. They’re the one of the two countries in Asia that doesn’t have a US embassy, the other being North Korea. (Not suggesting that they’re NK) It’s probably because they just don’t have relationship with the US.

em-bee

a month ago

bhutan has the lowest number of international relations

it appears that they intentionally avoid relationships with countries that could try to unduly influence them.

https://youtu.be/dA2laOQjZvQ

kylehotchkiss

a month ago

State Department was commanded to make a list of countries by visa overstay rate and all decisions made based on that sheet regardless of merit.

Just like tariffs were decided, and a bunch of microscopic pacific islands are being judged by trade deficits.

badc0ffee

a month ago

Visa overstay rate does at least relate to the issue at hand, because visa overstays are what they're trying to prevent. But trade deficits were never a good proxy.

joecool1029

a month ago

It's just weird they were even on the radar. I guess I could see a blanket 'any country with over 10% overstaying, bond required'.

Otherwise can't think of any identity/tribal reason... maybe tobacco lobbyists requested since they tried to ban smoking?

cal_dent

a month ago

I'm not American or live in the US, and haven't visited since before covid, but those who are or have been, can you give someone looking in some insight? Does it all just feel so much more explicitly like a state sponsored grift daily or is that just the vibes giving off by my selective media consumption?

JKCalhoun

a month ago

I live here and, if I ignore the news/media, it's fine.

(Not discounting the possibility that perhaps at some point it won't be though. And I am a white male if that makes a difference.)

chrneu

a month ago

Reminder that border patrol and ice have shot 3 people in the last 48 hours, one of them resulting in a death while they refused to allow medical treatment. Then multiple government agencies lied about the evidence, got caught, and lied again. We're not talking disputing facts, the FBI and ICE and the president blatantly lied while there is video evidence showing what happened.

Furthermore, a lot of politicians not only agree with this extrajudicial justice, they applauded the lies and the shootings.

Even US citizens are being detained. I think most tourists and immigrants should be very, very apprehensive about coming to this country.

I live in Oregon where this stuff is happening on the daily. Citizens are being plucked out of high school parking lots with no verification.

I think saying "it's fine" is pretty out of touch with reality. If you are non-white I would absolutely not travel to the United States right now. I say this as a white guy on the west coast of the US. Basically all my non-white foreign friends, mostly in academia, refuse to travel to the US right now and have no plans of doing so while Trump is in office. Their organizations and universities also aren't recommending US travel at this time.

A social media post from a decade ago could land you in custody. Think about that before traveling to the US. Is it likely? No, but it's very possible with Trump's proud boys doing immigration enforcement. Remember, they(federal agents) have absolute immunity.

JKCalhoun

a month ago

You're right. But I say "it's fine" when I take into account the odds of this happening to anyone at random.

I mean even before this administration, there were serial killers (well, probably still are) but I wouldn't tell someone to stay away from the US because there are serial killers. That was my point.

The country is indeed very fucked up though in general. But if you want to see the National Parks or museums, please enjoy (especially because it might get worse here down the road).

yibg

a month ago

> Reminder that border patrol and ice have shot 3 people in the last 48 hours, one of them resulting in a death while they refused to allow medical treatment.

Not trying to downplay that, but I think that's also on people's minds because of the new cycle. There are regularly "questionable" police shootings, causing deaths and have been going back as far as... well, ever. So in an unfortunately way, this isn't really "new".

user

a month ago

[deleted]

mothballed

a month ago

Still about the same price as being smuggled in by a coyote. Maybe a slight premium. Only slight effect on illegal immigration. I see this as USA basically trying to get the same 'cut' the coyote does.

jacquesm

a month ago

Because all immigration is illegal now?

mothballed

a month ago

You get the money, at least allegedly, returned if it's legal.

----- re: below due to throttling ------

Yes I agree. I only noted what I felt about its effects on illegal immigration.

As for legal immigrants, note my other comment, I think an in-cahoots bond agency that will pop up, collect an annoying but much smaller fee, then let you put up your car or something as collateral.

jacquesm

a month ago

The bulk of these people are going to not illegally immigrate. They don't need to be smuggled in but they are going to have to pony up a significant amount of money (more than most of them have). All this will do is put a serious dent into the legal immigration, the illegal ones will come anyway because they have a different risk/reward calculation.

And borrowing Donald Trump some money for a few weeks and expecting it back is something that I would not do.

Effectively what this will do is to stop people from those countries from traveling to the US entirely. Which is probably the real goal.

As to your edit:

People flying in from abroad won't have cars available as collateral, and most likely won't be allowed to fly before they put up the bond.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF

a month ago

> People flying in from abroad won't have cars available as collateral, and most likely won't be allowed to fly before they put up the bond.

This seems moot if such a bond agency would be allowed to set up offices in the origin countries.

jacquesm

a month ago

Sure, regardless of availability it is still going to be a massive increase in expenses effectively amounting to collective punishment. If 10% of your countrymen don't return after visiting the USA then the bonds providers are going to charge you at least 10% and probably substantially more.

mothballed

a month ago

The entire US immigration schema has always been based on collective punishment. USA requires visa from countries where people have been less likely to return. They have the most onerous scrutiny in places with the lowest compliance rates. If a foreign leader does something we don't like, we might punish their entire population by even banning any of them from easily coming.

I don't agree with the bond personally, nor the idea of collective punishment, I'll just note it follows a principle that is generally followed on the world stage with a few notable exceptions like Svalbard.

OGEnthusiast

a month ago

> And borrowing Donald Trump some money for a few weeks and expecting it back is something that I would not do.

There's always the option of not coming to the US.

jacquesm

a month ago

Oh no worries. Just speaking for myself that isn't going to happen. Things were bad enough between 2000 and 2007 when I was living on the US border, since then they've gotten so much worse that I wasn't planning on it, even if I'm not required to put up a five figure bond.

Maybe one day the USA will rejoin civilization but there are enough countries to choose from as it is. For me the main yardstick by which I measure how civilized a country is is by observing how the authorities treat people who have little or no power within the system.