beloch
3 days ago
Don't give your "smart" TV internet access. It's that simple.
Samsung's chicanery taught me this, but other manufacturers are no better. Those TV apps may seem nice, but they can be run on hardware you have more control over. I'd recommend only buying "dumb" TV's, but they've become increasingly rare and expensive. Less costs more!
stein1946
3 days ago
> Don't give your "smart" TV internet access. It's that simple.
No it's not.
Am I supposed to counter every action taken by a conglomerate against me every time?
Do all the consumers have to align to this as well?
a TV must be a TV, in the same sense that orange juice must be made from oranges.
Looking forward to EU reining in on them.
TitaRusell
2 days ago
It's goddamn hilarious when during setup a device/software asks me if I live in the EU.
Makes me want to Spotify Beethoven.
bdbdbdb
2 days ago
Yes all hail the EU.
Soon we'll have a popup before every individual show on Netflix asking us if we accept the cookies before we watch, all in the name of consumer protection
kimos
2 days ago
Cookie pops are malicious compliance to regulations that legitimately protect consumers. You’ve cherry picked one bad side effect to throw out all the ways the EU is way ahead of anyone else in protecting consumers, most of which you don’t even notice because it’s hard to notice harm that did not happen.
bdbdbdb
2 days ago
That's fair. I live in the EU and I love it here, and I'm glad for those protections every day. Except the damn cookie popup.
I don't agree they're malicious compliance though. I think it's just regular compliance.
geon
2 days ago
Regular compliance would be be to stop tracking users.
A ton of websites don’t even track users but have the cookie popup because they think that’s what you’re supposed to do.
m463
3 days ago
I worry about things like "improved" 5G technologies that let devices create their own connections. search for 5g miot or 5g redcap
more devices over time are getting plain cellular connections, let alone these newer cheaper versions.
jmward01
3 days ago
Just shows how much you are worth as a product to them, and how little competition is in the cell market, that all these devices can get lifetime cell connections while we are paying, how much a month? Actually, lawsuits about privacy for devices like this should quote how much the infrastructure costs are to support their tech. The network, services, people, etc are all a good estimate of actual value, in dollars, they are deriving from selling you as a product.
zamadatix
3 days ago
We use a crap ton of calls/sms/data over the same period, expect decent QoS on well performing bands, and have a TON more customer management and onboarding overheard over the same 5-10 year period. Meanwhile devices with embedded telemetry might get a plan as low as 500 MB total over 10 years and have hundreds of thousands in a single sale with no customer support overheard, SIM reactivation on new phones, etc.
Are you getting as good a deal? No, probably not, but trying to compare them to the cellular service you pay for is problematic in many ways. You too can get a $14 10 year prepaid plan from 1NCE for your Pi to send sensor telemetry from on occasion if that's what you want instead of "normal" cell service.
I wouldn't mind companies having to disclose everything and anything about the telemetry they collect though. Just putting the dollar figure on it is unlikely to shock anyone as it is low for you to do the same thing too.
mindslight
3 days ago
Follow the example of how buying a Linux PC works. Look at popular brands where there are vibrant online communities of people neutralizing the surveillance / control bits - pulling out the 5G modems and whatnot. It's possible manufacturers will eventually arrive at using all-in-one integrated chipset where you can't just disconnect a daughterboard or scratch the appropriate traces to a radio chip, but we're so far from that.
kotaKat
2 days ago
Bad news: we're actually closer than you'd think to that, considering how many cellular modems on their own are full blown SOC stacks and how far we've gotten into the eSIM camp.
mindslight
2 days ago
Cell modems are their own SOCs, but are their application processors being used to implement the main functionality of the TV?
Maybe they are, with Android UIs and whatnot? I actually don't have any "smart" TVs (main TV is a 43 inch monitor driven directly by Kodi), so I'm still picturing the car model where there is a separate component that does WAN communications, and the software developers made the system tolerant of it being disconnected (for development ease and also resiliency to failures). But maybe my model is horribly wrong for TVs.
wolvoleo
3 days ago
Yes or Amazon sidewalk. Also "great" as an unauthorized side channel exfiltration path.
doublerabbit
3 days ago
> Don't give your "smart" TV internet access. It's that simple.
For the tech users yes, simple. But for the non-technical user it's not.
The ISP given router don't normally provide the options for such. Nor would my mother, father, brother, sister even know about the slightest about networking, isolating networks.
wtallis
3 days ago
The very simple solution that would work in practice is: don't give your TV your WiFi password.
3eb7988a1663
3 days ago
Like everything in tech, they can be persistently annoying in asking. You may not do it, but can you be sure nobody in the house will?
ceejayoz
3 days ago
My parents got a Samsung TV. At Christmas, I turned off all the data collection features (and some abysmal AI face filter that was ruining the latest Knives Out film). It very annoyingly started prompting to reenable them regularly.
doublerabbit
3 days ago
Even simpler would be not to own a TV.
Sky TV the typical UK household satellite service now comes via your ISP as IPTV rather than dish. WiFi unfortunately then becomes the requirement.
testing22321
3 days ago
Have not had a TV in over 20 years. Fantastic quality of life upgrade.
They’re colloquially called “idiot box” in Australia for a reason.
kelseyfrog
3 days ago
TV-free here for about 6 years. I'd recommend it. It takes some getting used to, but after acclimating, the presence of TVs has become annoying. I'm not sure why I'd want to lose myself for an hour or two to it when there's more fulfilling things in the world.
Mjr_Mojo
3 days ago
I can see where you're coming from with your "more fulfilling things" statement, but I disagree. After all, TV's don't spew noise they spew stories. I'm not gonna argue that all TV is fulfilling, but engaging with stories is one of the the things which separates us from animals and to me is one of the more fulfilling things in life.
mittensc
2 days ago
> After all, TV's don't spew noise they spew stories.
Not really, TV in my experience it's all propaganda/stuff to keep you engaged and mad plus ads mixed in with some small content.
You're better off without broadcast TV... reading books, watching movies, socializing etc.
nickthegreek
3 days ago
Hooking up a streaming box is incredibly easy.
raw_anon_1111
3 days ago
So exactly where do I get a 60 inch monitor?
petepete
3 days ago
This is an area I'm keeping an eye on - currently this 55" Gigabyte one is about as good as it gets, but it feels like it's straddling the line between monitor and TV, as it runs Android and supports CEC and eARC.
https://www.gigabyte.com/Monitor/S55U
Once a company like Iiyama, Dell or Philips releases a 65-75" model with Display Port, I'm just going to buy it. Fingers crossed they do.
hnburnsy
2 days ago
Appliance manufacturers are starting to lock features behind an app/connectivity. Bosch and I believe LG are putting certain wash cycles app only. The in app only functionality will just get more intrusive until morale improves.
bilsbie
3 days ago
I had this idea for a novel where we get a world wide mesh network internet via tvs trying to make their own internet to phone home.
ceejayoz
3 days ago
Already exists.
SapporoChris
3 days ago
The grandparent mentioned "world wide mesh network internet". Is Amazon Sidewalk world wide? The link you posted only mentioned it launched in the United States in 2021. https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/devices/everything-you-need... shows a coverage map with large areas unserviced.
user
2 days ago
john01dav
3 days ago
Roku, when built-in to a TV, refuses to work as a dumb tv until you give it Internet access and sign in
quietsegfault
3 days ago
I have a Roku tv. I never plugged it in or gave it internet access. It works fine.
john01dav
3 days ago
It wasn't the case until iirc a few years ago. My guess is that you're on an old version of the software that didn't yet do this.
brutal_chaos_
3 days ago
they can give the tv powers to autoconnect to public/open networks and can partner with companies like Comcast to get more access points. It's best not to buy a smart TV
Spivak
3 days ago
Everyone says this but is there even a single example of any TV manufacturer including a cellular chip or partnering with an ISP for this kind of access?
Yeah sure eventually the "don't give your TV network access" might stop working but it works today and for the foreseeable future. You're more likely to get a TV that refuses to operate without a network.
raw_anon_1111
3 days ago
Absolutely no router has shipped in the last decade that I’m aware of that is open by default. ISP modems definitely don’t.
kotaKat
2 days ago
American cable operators set up a separately managed and isolated SSID and DOCSIS service flow to provide Hotspot2.0 access for their cellular subscribers (among other things). XfinityMobile/SpectrumMobile SSIDs are everywhere now out of the box being hosted off of ISP-issued hardware.
raw_anon_1111
2 days ago
And it requires a log in.
kotaKat
2 days ago
That’s where we have to circle back to the parent comment - a smart TV operator could 100% go buddy-buddy up with Xfinity/Spectrum/Cox/et al. and get Hotspot2.0 certs at the factory level to go hop onto whatever cable operators they want to target.
mw1
3 days ago
Xfinity cable modem / router combos will create public Xfinity networks by default for many years now. Absolutely is something Xfinity could be selling access to for other corporations.
raw_anon_1111
2 days ago
Yes and it even it requires you to log in first.