The fact that this area where the incident happened, Gulf of Finland, is not fully part Finnish/Estonian territorial waters, is only because of a bilateral Finnish-Estonian agreement. This was done in the 1990's purely for benevolence towards Russia.
Russia clearly hasn't acted in such way that they should enjoy these kinds of acts of benevolence. Finland and Estonia should seriously consider retreating from this agreement.
I don't think it's just benevolence. Territorial waters also doesn't mean what many think it means - unlike planes, ships have the almost-universally recognized right to cross territorial waters (innocent passage).
But what's more relevant here are rules about straits - territorial waters that fully enclose a section of someone else's territorial waters. My understanding is that that is a big part of the reason why the two countries restrict their claim of territorial waters to leave a corridor of international waters: They want to avoid the area falling under the straits rules (transit passage), which would give Russia more rights than it has now inside the territorial waters.
Is this runet, pikabu or y combinator I am readin? Geeez
You saying the Finland and Estonia are guilty of russia cutting their cables because they signed an agreement?!
> 1990's purely for benevolence towards Russia.
When you're a country as small and insignificant as Estonia is you're not doing anything out of "benevolence" towards a nuclear hyper-power, but what do I know?. maybe the Maja Kallas-types really do believe in their own word-blabber.
That narrow passage is becoming a war zone. Look at a map. It's one of Russia's few outlets to the sea.
Look at the history of Russia vs. Finland and Russia vs. Estonia. This is one of the world's most hostile choke points.
I will never understand why it has to be this way and Russia cannot be a normal country that has the goal to join the EU and be prosperous instead of doing nonsense for over a hundred years now.
Yes: Notice that without the Baltic Sea, which is effectively closed, and the Crimean region of Ukraine, Russia is not a European naval power, and experts have long argued (afaik) not much of a European power.
Similarly, notice how much they invested in their naval base in Syria on the Mediterranean (though I'm not sure of its status now, and they oddly seemed to abandon Assad, who provided it to them).
More critically, think of a war: How do they trade by sea by sea? Their economy could be choked off, restricted to Pacific trade and trains across Asia to the population centers. They are in a corner.
That or the Suwalki gap. They're both flashpoints.
With 10 undersea cables damaged in the Baltic 2023-2025, it’s obvious a different part of the government needs to become involved. Acting for your national security doesn’t need to (shouldn’t) mean there is no trial.
Two other cable cuts/"damages" happened around the same dates. Two separate Arelion-owned cables between Sweden/Estonia and Finland/Estonia.
https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/JOow58/kabelbrott-mella... (Swedish)
[...] two of their submarine cables – one between Sweden and Estonia and one between Estonia and Finland – have been damaged. The first cable was damaged on December 30th and the second on December 31st.
(Arelion is AS1299/formerly known as Telia Carrier. The name change happened because it's now owned by a Swedish government-managed infrastructure-focused pension fund.)
Don't even need to click to know it's the Russians.
Assuming it is state-sponsored sabotage…why? Whats the outcome they want? Is it just turning up the heat in the region?
I find it hilarious, that a land-empire, trying to undo the rule of law internationally, so the rule of the strongest returns, benefits from one side upholding the rule of law- and even gets to cry about it (venezuella) and mimicry mock the international order by presenting papers with signatures (as if they mean anything to somebody who would invade another nation at whim).
This self-hypnosis of walking on water while going to Takatuka, is falling apart faster then it can repair itself.
Lock em up, sell thier property. Rinse and repeat.
I understand the basics of the current conflicts, but what would be the advantage of sabotaging those cables at this moment?
There needs to be a blockade for these rogue ships. That's the only thing they'll understand, short of being sunk.
Effin' Russian govt, the rest of the world is too easy on them. They'll break ceasefires, they'll target non-military sites, they'll interfere with elections, they'll spread misinformation on social media, they'll lie to everyone and especially to their own citizens.
Mine the Gulf of Finland, problem solved. This may create other problems but hey Finland is part of NATO now.
I guess it's low level warfare - Europe supplies arms to Ukraine, Russia damages European stuff.
Let's play war game. Here's a life-like scenario:
- Russian ship damages another cable
- EU deploys military ships and planes on Baltic/North sea
- Russia deploys military ships and planes of their own
- EU tries to stop and seize another RU shadow fleet vessel
- EU vessel denies EU demands
- EU attack a vessel, trying to immobilize it
- RU ships and planes attacks EU ships and planes
- casualties from both sides
- RU drops 10-15 MRBMs with conventional (non-nuclear) warheads onto key EU naval bases
- orange clown in the White House says "this is not our war"
Your move.
It's pretty obvious what's happening here.
The response needs to be forceful: seize and auction off the ships. There needs to be sufficient deterrent to actually stop this from happening.
They should build microwave towers between the Nordics and the Baltics.
I wonder how the insurance works in this situation.
Maybe it's time to cut Russia out of the West's internet altogether.
it's like Putin decided his job is to test the limits of modern international politics
Just like Trump's tariff bs, I'm starting to think that for Putin's M.O. that we should be fighting fire with fire.
Why not send a couple ships to drag anchors across Russia's cables? "Oh we are but innocent fishermen" is still valid going the other way.
Then when Russia inevitably seizes and imprisons the crew, the international community can do the same for every Russian controlled ship with the bare minimum of suspicion.
Would be a pretty sucky mission though, so many risks of capture. But the Russian government does it because they don't care about their people and also the rest of the world is too toothless to do anything about it (until this occurrence at least, go Finland - but then they know Russia's tactics very well).
Russia has been doing a "stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself" to the world for too long, abusing the "nice" way we desperately try to see things, pretending even when it's obvious. Like they'll do something egregious and then when the West calls them out, suddenly their political mouthpieces are all "we can't believe that the West is making this shocking and provocative accusation which is of course completely false, EU are bullies!" and then the world responds by taking a step back, pretty much every single time.
Too many warmongering, aggressive people in the comments. This is not how we get the good ending. Cooler heads prevail. You don't understand this. That's okay. It's not your fault.
It sounds like the court will just throw it out again as not having jurisdiction over the case.
It honestly starts to sound like they just botched the design and placement of these cables - placing them in shallow and exposed passages, with no proper defense against dragged anchors.