> Even killing all pathogens does not reduce all toxins already present in contaminated liquids.

There are two things to be mindful of: Food Poisoning and Food Intoxication.

Poisoning occurs from microbes (e.g. salmonella). Most are killed instantly at ~165F/74F, or at lower temperatures if those temperatures are kept for some period of time (140F/60C@12min; 150F/65C@72sec):

* https://www.michiganfoodsafety.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/0...

* Tables 2 to 4: https://www.fsis.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media_file/202...

However, microbes are living things, and when they metabolize food they create waste. That waste can also be harmful to humans as well, but the waste is not dealt with high temperatures. So even if you kill the microbes at high temperatures to prevent poisoning, if there's enough waste around and you ingest it you may get food intoxication.

Ever since COVID, I've been hyper aware of anywhere I'm being confined with people, breathing their air, touching things they were touching, sitting where they were and so on. I feel like I'm hallucinating and can visualize the human germs and filth in the liquids, in the air, everywhere. Airlines are of course the worst, but I'll still bring a mask to any indoor space like a small bar or restaurant, avoid touching anything, avoid touching my own face/eyes. Super attuned to hygiene. Every enclosed space outside of my own home/car feels disgusting and urgent to avoid.

boiling is more than enough to kill bacteria in general (Ex: if one had the ability to bring chicken instantly up to a temperature of 160F or so, it be considered perfectly safe. In the sous vide world one might only want to bring it up to 140-150F to not overcook it, and therefore would hold it at that lower temperature for some longer time).

With that said, this is only for bacteria. Bacteria also can produce spores (Ex: the botulism toxin produced by a bacteria, which is produced in an anaerobic environment, and exactly why sous vide cooking at low temperatures can be dangerous, as the anaerobic environment that it can thrive in and if kept at temperaturese in the danger zone where it can thrive can result in the production of botulism that won't be later killed/destroyed by higher temps that kill its producing bacteria)

Well, for coffee it’s brought to near boiling then brew time is typically a few minutes, then it’s largely stored above 140 degrees.

This varies significantly from person to person, yeah.

I was fine for years until I wasn’t - now I basically restrict myself bottled water and wine, which come from outside the plane. Many airlines flown in the past year around the world too.

Another problem with that is we don't know what made us sick. And if we think airplane coffee is fine but didn't like lunch at the diner, we tend to assume it's the latter.

Ask anyone who has worked in a fast food place that has an ice machine

I wonder how air Canada reconciles this. There was a popular globe and mail article a while ago that gave awful rankings to air Canada's water tanks -- so the company put up signs in the bathroom saying the water is non-potable and called it a day.

Not super comforting if they're then using the same 'non-potable' water to make coffee...

The article is from 2023. I wouldn't be too hard on the author as it was still a novelty back then.

> person drinking airline coffee unsure what is in it / Midjourney

I’d rather PJ focus on his podcast rather than making visual art. Akin to using a stock image instead of going out taking a picture instead to save time.

and wow look at that hand

2023 was a different time…

Yes, it's night and day. From purchase to lounge to flight and even airport terminal, it's a completely different experience. American Airlines is not only bad overall but it's so f dirty everywhere.

And also every time there's a report, they rank this way

Maybe, but Alaska is about 1:4 the size of Delta

I don't think this has anything to do with being "proud" when it's part of a study summary that said the water you'd wash with commonly contains e.coli and advises a different cleaning method instead -- misguided as that conclusion may be when considering other types of viruses (I'm not an expert and cannot judge either argument's merit). Seems strange/unfair to lump them in with people that "proudly" (do you know anyone like that??) don't clean their hands

To quote George Carlin (careful, swearwords ahead):

  When I was a little boy in New York City in the 1940s, we swam in the Hudson River and it was filled with raw sewage okay? We swam in raw sewage! You know... to cool off! And at that time, the big fear was polio; thousands of kids died from polio every year but you know something? In my neighbourhood, no one ever got polio! No one! Ever! You know why? Cause we swam in raw sewage! It strengthened our immune systems! The polio never had a prayer; we were tempered in raw shit! So personally, I never take any special precautions against germs. I don't shy away from people that sneeze and cough, I don't wipe off the telephone, I don't cover the toilet seat, and if I drop food on the floor, I pick it up and eat it! Yes I do. Even if I'm at a sidewalk café! In Calcutta! The poor section! On New Year's morning during a soccer riot! And you know something? In spite of all that so-called risky behaviour, I never get infections, I don't get them, I don't get colds, I don't get flu, I don't get headaches, I don't get upset stomach, you know why? Cause I got a good strong immune system and it gets a lot of practice.

At least the dirt and grime will have fewer pathogens

You should push the knob with a paper towel instead. I do this at all small public restrooms.

Related rant: The widespread stupidity around bathroom doors calls the intelligence of humans into (even more) question.

Airplane-bathroom doors open out because they must. But the number of public-bathroom doors that inexplicably open INWARD is mind-boggling. Instead of simply having doors open outward, millions of bathrooms create mountains of paper waste by having them open inward and encouraging users to waste a paper towel to grab its handle.

Galling stupidity: https://www.instagram.com/p/BlO_-jmg4o7/

Or, rather than trying to keep your hands sterile which is a futile exercise, doing what the military teaches - keep your hands away from your face (eyes, nose, mouth) and don't scratch your skin.

The reason you care about germs on your hands is because they make you sick when you stick them in your body orifaces. Otherwise, those germs don't matter.

Wash hands before meals otherwise.

> especially for brushing teeth

As someone in a dental family and with excellent teeth, you absolutely do not need to brush your teeth on a flight.

There's a YouTuber named Stig Shift who chronicles his job as an airline mechanic and he insists the bathroom water is clean enough to drink.

It says right on the bathroom faucet that it isn’t for drinking - anyone brushing their teeth with the sink water is a fool.

I thought that soap did something more than just wash the nasties off - something about it interfering with cell walls of viruses/bacteria and therefore killing them

Looked it up

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3037063/

Handwashing is thought to be effective for the prevention of transmission of diarrhoea pathogens. However it is not conclusive that handwashing with soap is more effective at reducing contamination with bacteria associated with diarrhoea than using water only. In this study 20 volunteers contaminated their hands deliberately by touching door handles and railings in public spaces. They were then allocated at random to (1) handwashing with water, (2) handwashing with non-antibacterial soap and (3) no handwashing. Each volunteer underwent this procedure 24 times, yielding 480 samples overall. Bacteria of potential faecal origin (mostly Enterococcus and Enterobacter spp.) were found after no handwashing in 44% of samples. Handwashing with water alone reduced the presence of bacteria to 23% (p < 0.001). Handwashing with plain soap and water reduced the presence of bacteria to 8% (comparison of both handwashing arms: p < 0.001). The effect did not appear to depend on the bacteria species. Handwashing with non-antibacterial soap and water is more effective for the removal of bacteria of potential faecal origin from hands than handwashing with water alone and should therefore be more useful for the prevention of transmission of diarrhoeal diseases.

I find it absolutely puzzling that people refill their bottles in those public fountains.

Last time I was in SFO I saw dozens of people doing that in the time it took from deplaning till boarding an Uber and all I could do was scratch my head

So it's from the future? nice

In-flight is quite risky: long-haul flights have much more covid transmission than short flights, which should not happen if transmission only occurred during takeoff and landing.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11203943/

The advance air circulation system doesn't help that much with the lady coughing and blowing her nose right next to me and the filthy child touching every seat armrest as he walks down the aisle.