An ounce of silver is now worth more than a barrel of oil

93 pointsposted 14 hours ago
by bookofjoe

95 Comments

whatamidoingyo

10 hours ago

This absolutely hurts my soul.

Pre-covid, I religiously saved silver (and gold). Just bought some every single paycheck for like 6 years. I had coins, jewelry, bars, silverware, etc.

I wished my parents had left me a treasure, but they didn't, so I thought I'd do that for my kids, maybe even leave them a map... But I don't have kids, so after being locked in my house during covid, I kind of went a bit crazy.

I sold it all and moved states (after travelling quite a bit). My collection was quite massive, and I 100% knew that this day would come, but I didn't care, I just needed a new view. I live near the beach now, but... if I just held, I'd be in a much better place. I hate myself a bit for selling.

seizethecheese

10 hours ago

At least you didn’t buy bitcoin at $200 and sell at $400 thinking you made out like a bandit, like me. (I basically never think about this though, and it shouldn’t hurt your soul.)

KellyCriterion

27 minutes ago

I was working with Bitcoin in my job back in 2013 when it was around 40-50 USD - if I see the charts today, it makes me cry every day - esp. since I was in that role, on the institutional side - and I didnt believe in it.

(though, I have to admit I was a student back then, but just a few weekends less with the colleagues would have made me a wealthy person)

IgorPartola

9 hours ago

Heh I bought at $20 and sold at $1000. It was only 1 BTC. I bought I think 2 or 3 and mined a bit too but back then exchanges got hacked all the time. Honestly I do not feel bad. Every pizza I bought could have been tens of thousands too if I knew how BTC would turn out (or Nvidia or Netflix or the outcome of any major sporting event, etc.). I made a profit and it helped at the time. I am not sore about it because I also do not know how many dumb investments I passed up that would have just lost money.

nothrabannosir

10 hours ago

You did make out like a bandit. 100% returns is incredible.

atif089

4 hours ago

Hey that sounds familiar. I did buy AMD at $2 and sold it at $4 when first Ryzen came out

KellyCriterion

23 minutes ago

You must have a time machine, because when the first ryzen in 2017 came out, AMD price was around 12 - 13 USD.

The last time AMD was at 2-3 USD was in late 2015 :-D

Aboutplants

10 hours ago

Your upset because you used hard earned money to completely change your life to the point that you now live near the beach? Buddy, that is exactly what money is for and it appears you used it more wisely than 99% of everyone else. Congrats on making the leap to better your situation and have experiences that will never be replaced. Enjoy your life! Looks like you are doing that so continue doing it! This is what it is all for!

baubino

9 hours ago

My version of this took place in 2003 when I bought shares of a new company that rented out DVDs through the mail. I had been a customer for a few years and thought it was a pretty neat concept. Bought at around $20 per share, sold at around $27 a few years later when I was a broke grad student and needed some cash. What’s done is done. At some point, you just need to let it go.

therobots927

10 hours ago

You have to try to not think like that. I know because I’ve been in similar places with investments. Just try to focus on gratitude.

whatamidoingyo

10 hours ago

You're right. What's done is done, and there's no going back now.

nurettin

6 hours ago

I burned like 10 MTG alpha mint black lotuses at a camp fire.

mothballed

10 hours ago

If you sold it and bought housing 4+ years ago when interest rates were near zero you've still got the last laugh.

People holding dollars instead of PMs or real estate are the real bag holders. Not only are they actively paying for those fed generated artificial interest rate negative real rate mortgages that property owners got (paid for via inflation on non property owners), they missed out on massive appreciation of property and PMs. They are literally paying the richest people to become even richer, and paying them for the privilege to get further and further away from ever owning their own home.

If you sold in 2023 or 2024 though, you basically got fucked both ways.

gethly

11 hours ago

Silver is limited in supply. The production is actually in deficit for years now, as silver gets used up and there is very little recycling.

Oil on the other hand is infinite.

n1b0m

11 hours ago

How is it infinite? Oil forms from ancient organic matter under intense heat and pressure, a process taking millions of years, making it non-renewable on human timescales.

mr_toad

8 hours ago

It can be synthesized from air and water with energy and the right catalysts, although the process isn’t cheap. However if solar power keeps getting cheaper it might become feasible to produce it this way instead of drilling.

n1b0m

2 hours ago

Very interesting, I wasn’t aware of that

DANmode

an hour ago

Despite spending a mind-numbing amount of time deeply embedded in the automotive world, I had no idea synthetic oil didn’t have oil or petroleum precursors.

This is an incredible, and wildly under discussed win.

As soon as solar energy is being used at scale, this will probably become way more commonly used - big electricity expense is the only main cost.

Carbon capture is the other main input…hmmm.

tbrownaw

10 hours ago

Biodiesel is a thing.

vr46

10 hours ago

Funny, I like it. I guess gold has been too expensive for a while.

Teever

10 hours ago

Anyone with basic physical literacy knows nothing extractive is infinite.

What interest is served by posting this obviously wrong rhetoric?

jgalt212

11 hours ago

You must have had a lot of fun when the "peak oil" crowd was dominating the conversation.

stouset

11 hours ago

Annually, we consume more oil than we find additional reserves of. The difference is something like 12 times less than annual consumption, and the gap is widening.

If you’ve found a way to escape that arithmetic, I’m all ears.

hippo22

11 hours ago

The math is pretty simple: the world consumes 36 billion barrels of oil a year and there are like 2 trillion barrels of known reserves. We have enough reserves for 55 years of current consumption. There’s 0 incentive to find more.

manwe150

8 hours ago

To follow up on that, I think that 50 year horizon number has even been the case for something well over 50 years now. It seems we are incentivized currently to extract from deposits around that threshold of years? One professor I had even claimed this will always hold true indefinitely, since at some point we’ll switch away from oil, this holding constant there being about 50 years of known reserves left, once it become economically infeasible to extract that oil.

mothballed

10 hours ago

There's a $60+ / barrel incentive to find and extract more.

twodave

10 hours ago

Ostensibly not all known oil fields are actively being extracted. This fact alone makes it unlikely that discovering a new source would affect the price of oil, unless it can be retrieved using cheaper than the existing methods. It’s also worth pointing out that “oil” as a resource isn’t this homogenous substance. Basically every different source of oil has a different (and expensive) refinement process on the other end. It’s a lot more variables than the Reddit-style armchair oil tycoon would probably expect.

DANmode

an hour ago

Nobody was talking about changing the price of oil, though.

Just someone getting paid market rate for the additional barrels.

mothballed

10 hours ago

I'm sorry, Reddit-style armchair oil tycoon? I've been using the word "oil" commodity the same way as everyone else has, why did you pick out my comment for that aspersion? Why not upthread when people were discussing 0 incentives? You are applying this aspersion and standard asymmetrically.

twodave

8 hours ago

Am I? I think I used it in 100% of my comments before this one… it was not meant as an offense, but more as an acknowledgement that almost nobody here (including myself; I’ll happily take the moniker if you won’t) has the appropriate knowledge to argue this topic.

igftiuhugfduh

10 hours ago

New exploration is in the $35-40 break even range, not $60. A well with $60 break even is a poor investment right now.

mothballed

5 hours ago

Incentive != break even point.

$35-40 takes into account the risks and time value of the investment, potential price fluctuations, and the preference for (all else equal) lowest cost extraction.

I would not expect someone to dump in a shit ton of money, hope the well works out, and nothing else go wrong right at an expected cost at $60/barrel with amortized investments/operations included.

binary132

10 hours ago

Erm, actually once we have subatomic assemblers then silver will also be infinite.

torcete

10 hours ago

There's an asian AI guy on youtube providing a lot of information about what is going on with the silver right now. Sometimes it seems like he has some insider information, and the whole reasoning seems to come from an expert.

It's strange because it's just not one channel but multiple, and the person behind has kept uploading videos during the entire duration of these holidays. So far, he seems to be quite accurate with his predictions. It's been quite informative.

If someone is curious, one of many: https://youtu.be/vBIUZGlNkks

sa-code

6 hours ago

Can someone explain why this comment feels like guerrilla marketing?

ulfw

2 hours ago

What's an Asian AI guy?

KellyCriterion

7 minutes ago

...someone with Blockchain & Cloud support?

msuniverse2026

10 hours ago

That video is an interesting switch-up from the past 'JP Morgan the silver suppressor' thing that everyone was going with. Now that silver is going up a new uniting belief is required for the silver stackers. Reminds me of the 'Game Stop stock will literally make everyone with a single share a millionaire' strat that had retail investors clamouring to get as much as much as they could and to hold it to the grave no matter how much it dropped. Just two more weeks bro. I think these sorts of videos prey on people without the sophistication to understand financial markets or assets. Everything the AI guy is saying could be 100% true but how would you know? Everything about Gamestop stock was a lie but it had the same sort of ring to it.

I guess eventually people develop enough discernment to say they don't know whats going on, until then slop like this is taken as Gospel.

chairhairair

10 hours ago

Do you not realize this is an AI generated person?

tsol

10 hours ago

OP did call him AI. If the underlying research is valid rather than AI generated it can still be valuable. Seems like this guy is using an AI persona essentially to communicate his ideas.

Larrikin

10 hours ago

To me, AI Asian guy sounds like an AI generated person that is Asian. Asian AI guy sounds like you could be talking about Andrew Ng or some one else that teaches about ML, LLMs, etc.

buildsjets

10 hours ago

He realized it. But you did not realize that.

chairhairair

10 hours ago

Maybe? He said “Asian AI guy”, which is pretty weird.

Then he went on to claim this bizzaro video has “been quite informative.” When it’s definitely an AI slop pumping mechanism.

TBH his comment is probably part of the campaign.

torcete

10 hours ago

Oh, I wrote "asian ai guy" because that's the name people are using in these YouTube videos.

Maybe you are right and the video is just ai slop. I just wanted to share it, because I learnt with them how futures, arbitrage and market manipulation works.

Also, I can assure you that I am not part of any campaign, but of course, what else would I say?

msuniverse2026

10 hours ago

What? Did you even read the first sentence he wrote?

jmyeet

10 hours ago

I'm surprised the WSJ didn't have any depth on what's happened and why.

"Backwardation" is a term that must be used here. That's where the spot price was higher than the future price.

For anyone unfamiliar, pretty much any commodity can trade under a futures contract. That means you as a producer or consumer can lock in a price at a future point. But you must come up with the commodity on that date or come up with the money and take delivery.

So imagine the spot (current) price is $70/oz but the future price is $65/oz. That means nobody is really buying at $70 when a price a month out is $65. So how does this happen/ Because dealers in the market have written futures contracts for silver they don't have and they will have to buy at the spot price to cover it at some point. They either don't want to or can't. Best case scenario, they're going to take a massive loss. Worst case, they are insolvent.

So there was little to no activity at the spot price even though it's at a record high. Refiners weren't buying.

There's a market for borrowing silver from people who have it and that market exploded this year as these dealers sought temporary relief for the futures contracts they had to cover.

All of this signaled that banks and refiners were essentially conspiring to suppress silver prices to remain solvent and that at some point the dam was going to burst.

And it did because China, who refines 60-70% of the world's silver, decided they would cease exports because of local demand for things like solar panels.

So here we are.

igftiuhugfduh

10 hours ago

No major bank has an unhedged silver position remotely large enough to risk its solvency, the market is just not large enough. When I read this kind of conspiracy post I think you're long and talking your book.

tlhunter

11 hours ago

The human verification script used on this site caused my phone's speakers to wig out.

buckle8017

11 hours ago

This is the inevitable result of western countries taxing oil.

The higher the taxes the lower the price of crude has to be for people to afford it. This means reduced western demand at high prices.

However this doesn't reduce consumption, it just shifts the consumption to the developing world, where there are minimal if any taxes on consumption.

thaumasiotes

11 hours ago

> However this doesn't reduce consumption, it just shifts the consumption to the developing world

This is true if production levels aren't responsive to prices, but I see no reason that would be the case. Petroleum production levels are known to be quite responsive to upward price movements.

fy20

5 hours ago

There have been seconds order effects that have led to lower fuel consumption. Cars typically consume less fuel for the same distance driven compared to two decades ago. Part of that is increased fuel economy, part of it is smaller / more efficient cars growing in popularity.

mr_toad

8 hours ago

The producers vary production to drive price movements, not the other way around.

mothballed

10 hours ago

Meanwhile in most states there is no sales tax at all on silver bullion.

themadturk

7 hours ago

I think it start Jan. 1 in Washington.

llmslave2

11 hours ago

If only this wasn't wholly predictable...

karim79

13 hours ago

It's actually sad that a barrel of oil is still worth anything, but hey, what to do.

ux266478

12 hours ago

I too wish we were weaving exotic matter metamaterials out of the aether, but until then hydrocarbons are a miracle from the heavens for their uses. A modern cedar tree.

Waterluvian

12 hours ago

I feel they’re more a miracle from the depths of hell. Sunlight is probably the miracle from heaven.

ux266478

12 hours ago

The sun is but a poor, corrupted pun on starlight. The reflecting pool of crude shimmers with thin-film interference like nebulae on the celestial expanse.

LeFantome

12 hours ago

You could argue that the sun was pretty useful, quite the “essential companion” in the Stone Age as well.

In fact, it is hard to imagine there would have been enough dead trees to make oil if it were not for the sun.

You could argue (pretty soundly) that oil is just a way of consuming the energy in trees which got that energy from the sun. So oil is just a way of extracting ancient solar energy.

literalAardvark

10 hours ago

If you go that far, all energy sources are [ancient] solar energy though. Geothermal? Yep. Wind? Yep. Fission? Yeppers.

Waterluvian

12 hours ago

Oil’s potential, left deep in the crust, remains latent. Every mote of sunlight, furiously brought to life by the maelstrom, seeks inexorably for immediate purpose.

mr_toad

8 hours ago

> too wish we were weaving exotic matter metamaterials out of the aether,

We’ve known how to make hydrocarbons out of air for decades, it’s just cheaper to dig up the remains of plants that discovered the process billions of years ago.

rjsw

13 hours ago

It is useful as chemical feedstock, burning it is a waste.

datahack

11 hours ago

Truly, it’s a miracle for manufacturing. I wish people would understand what a profound waste burning it actually is.

mattmaroon

11 hours ago

They will when supplies eventually dwindle. We were saved from peak oil only by the invention/cheapening of fracking followed by the advent of horizontal drilling and unlocking of oil in shales. It's unlikely any such windfall will occur again, and even if it does that merely kicks the can down the road.

adamwong246

11 hours ago

All petroleum was created from ancient forests before the evolution of microorganisms that could decompose fiber, so the plant material was simply buried and gradually became petroleum. Above ground, evolution produced organisms which could break down fiber. My point being, that not only is petroleum very useful, it is exceptionally rare on a geological timeline (at least on this planet ). It's like a cosmic trust fund, and like most trust fund recipents, we utterly squandered it. We took all this free energy, burned it to power ai slop, and poisoned ourselves in the process. We should have been using that oil to push humans out of the gravity well to Titan where petroleum is abundant. But no, we wanted big cars, cheap electricity and single use utensils.

Edit: I was mistaken, confusing coal and petroleum. While petroleum comes from microscopic ocean life, coal forms from the remains of terrestrial plants.

nerdsniper

11 hours ago

I think that the forest thing might be true for coal but I believe oil is from algae.

adamwong246

11 hours ago

You are right! Thank you for correcting me

AYBABTME

11 hours ago

Hydrocarbons can be synthesized.

edit: let me elaborate.

My point is that the chemical complexity (manufacturing uses) can be reproduced, and the energy storage density also can be. So really the gift of hydrocarbons under the ground is more that readily available energy is under our feet to help propel us towards higher levels sources of energy. IMO it’s a stepping stone and that’s effectively how humanity is using it.

jakupovic

12 hours ago

I read this "useful as automotive feedstock" which still makes sense.

01HNNWZ0MV43FF

12 hours ago

The price should actually trend up as supply is choked by pollution taxes.

Every voter who votes for lower gas prices is agreeing that it's better to live inside the cruel empire than to build a world without empire

pasquinelli

12 hours ago

i didn't know gas prices were decided by vote.