Pre-commit hooks are broken

211 pointsposted 7 days ago
by todsacerdoti
(jyn.dev)

175 Comments

nrclark

6 days ago

This was a really interesting read. I'd highly recommend it for anybody who's setting up (or currently maintains) a pre-commit workflow for their developers.

I want to add one other note: in any large organization, some developers will use tools in ways nobody can predict. This includes Git. Don't try to force any particular workflow, including mandatory or automatically-enabled hooks.

Instead, put what you want in an optional pre-push hook and also put it into an early CI/CD step for your pull request checker. You'll get the same end result but your fussiest developers will be happier.

eru

6 days ago

> This includes Git. Don't try to force any particular workflow, including mandatory or automatically-enabled hooks.

And with git, you can even make anything that happens on the dev machines mandatory.

Anything you want to be mandatory needs to go into your CI. Pre-commit and pre-push hooks are just there to lower CI churn, not to guarantee anything.

(With the exception of people accidentally pushing secrets. The CI is too late for that, and a pre-push hook is a good idea.)

darkwater

6 days ago

A good analogy is: git hooks are client-side validation; CI is server-side validation, aka the only validation you can trust.

normie3000

6 days ago

> with git, you can even make anything that happens on the dev machines mandatory

s/can/can't?

mycall

5 days ago

You can an an enterprise environment when following SOPs are mandatory due to cybersecurity and infrastructure requirements.

eru

6 days ago

Yes, indeed.

beezlewax

5 days ago

You can run git commit with a --no-verify flag to skip these hooks

Mic92

6 days ago

I can second that. If there are multiple commits: https://github.com/tummychow/git-absorb is handy to add formatting changes into the right commit after commits already happened.

oxryly1

6 days ago

It looks like git absorb rewrites history. Doesn’t that break your previously pushed branch?

andrewaylett

6 days ago

That's a controversy I'm not sure you necessarily realise you've stepped into :).

It's fairly common to consider working and PR branches to be "unpublished" from a mutability point of view: if I base my work on someone else's PR, I'm going to have to rebase when they rebase. Merging to `main` publishes the commit, at which point it's immutable.

Working with JJ, its default behaviour is to consider parents of a branch that's not owned by you to be immutable.

tharkun__

6 days ago

My branch is mine. Don't tell me what I can or can't do. I push WIP stuff all the time, to share code with others for discussion, to get the build to run in parallel while I keep working or just at the end of the day. I freely amend and will squashed before merging (we only allow a single commit per branch to go to master).

If I or someone else bases something off anything but master that's on them to rebased and keep up to date.

jghn

6 days ago

My philosophy is that once a PR is open, that's the point at which people should no longer feel free to treat their branch as their own. Even in groups that squash commits, it should still preserve the aggregate commit messages.

But until that PR is open? Totally with you. There is no obligation to "preserve history" up until that point.

johnisgood

6 days ago

Not to disagree, but this is so GitHub-centric. What is up with "diffs", "patches", and "submissions"? :D

jghn

6 days ago

Not to disagree, but calling it Github-centric is a bit over specific :)

I regularly work with Github, Bitbucket, and Gitlab. Everything I said applies except for the fact that I said "PR" instead of "MR". But yes, you're right. I'm highlighting a specific, albeit extremely popular, workflow.

johnisgood

6 days ago

I know, I know, I was going to edit it to "Git{Hub,Lab}" in the beginning but oh well.

In any case, my comment just reflects on the fact that you had a series of patches that you could not squash or rebase. It stuck.

And the fact that I see many people use the abbreviation "PR" for something that is merely a patch or diff. For example you might send a diff to the tech@ mailing list, but you should not refer to it as a PR.

andrewaylett

4 days ago

Strong disagree: until the branch is merged, it's mine.

I'm in a camp that prefers single rebased commits as units of change, "stacked diffs" style.

GitHub in particular was annoying with this style but is definitely getting better. It's still not great at dealing with actual stacks of diffs, but I can (and do) work around that by keeping the stack locally and only pushing commits that apply directly to the main branch.

mcv

6 days ago

There's a weird thing happening on my current project. Sometimes I merge main into my branch and it fails. What fails is the pre-commit hook on the merge commit. Changes in main fail the linting checks in the pre-commit hook. But they still ended up in main, somehow. So the checks on the PR are apparently not as strict as the checks on the pre-commit hook. As a result, many developers have gotten used to committing with `--no-verify`, at which point, what is even the point of a pre-commit hook?

And sometimes I just want to commit work in progress so I can more easily backtrack my changes. These checks are better on pre-push, and definitely should be on the PR pipeline, otherwise they can and will be skipped.

Anyway, thanks for giving me some ammo to make this case.

baobun

2 days ago

For the sake of argument, let's say you have a check that caps the number of lines per file and that both you and main added lines in the same file. It's not too weird if that check fails only after merge, right?

One benign example of something that can break after merge even if each branch is individually passing pre-merge. In less benign cases it will your branch merged to main and actual bugs in the code.

One reason to not allow "unclean merges" and enforced incoming branches to be rebased up-to-date to be mergable to the main branch.

You probably want to run the checks on each commit to main in CI and not rely on them being consistently run by contributors.

You do you but I find rebasing my branch on main instead of merging makes me scratch mybhead way less.

QuercusMax

6 days ago

Your hook really shouldn't be running on the merge commit unless you have conflicts in your merge.

mcv

4 days ago

Never had conflicts on a merge? We've got a lot of people on the same codebase. Merge conflicts are a fact of life. And they wouldn't be a problem without the stupid commit hook. It's the commit hook that makes them a problem.

QuercusMax

3 days ago

If you have conflicts then you can fix them and run your linter or formatter. If you have a no conflict merge it doesn't matter.

mcv

3 days ago

Thanks, but that's not the issue here.

r2vcap

5 days ago

Why not take the best of both worlds? Use pre-commit hooks for client-side validation, and run the same checks in CI as well. I’ve been using this setup for years without any issues.

One key requirement in my setup is that every hook is hermetic and idempotent. I don’t use Rust in production, so I can’t comment on it in depth, but for most other languages—from clang-format to swift-format—I always download precompiled binaries from trusted sources (for example, the team’s S3 storage). This ensures that the tools run in a controlled environment and consistently produce the same results.

PunchyHamster

6 days ago

> I want to add one other note: in any large organization, some developers will use tools in ways nobody can predict. This includes Git. Don't try to force any particular workflow, including mandatory or automatically-enabled hooks.

you will save your org a lot of pain if you do force it, same as when you do force a formatting style rather than letting anyone do what they please.

You can discuss to change it if some parts don't work but consistency lowers the failures, every time.

dxdm

6 days ago

Enforcement should live in CI. Into people's dev environments, you put opt-in "enablement" that makes work easier in most cases, and gets out of the way otherwise.

tyleo

6 days ago

Agreed, my company has some helper hooks they want folks to use which break certain workflows.

We’re a game studio with less technical staff using git (art and design) so we use hooks to break some commands that folks usually mess up.

Surprisingly most developers don’t know git well either and this saves them some pain too.

The few power users who know what they’re doing just disable these hooks.

tomjakubowski

6 days ago

It's a good thing you can't force it, because `git commit -n` exists. (And besides, management of the `.git/hooks` directory is done locally. You can always just wipe that directory of any noxious hooks.)

I can accept (but still often skip, with `git push -n`) a time-consuming pre-push hook, but a time-consuming and flaky pre-commit hook is totally unacceptable to my workflows and I will always find a way to work around it. Like everyone else is saying, if you want to enforce some rule on the codebase then do it in CI and block merges on it.

aljgz

5 days ago

I'm the type of developer who always have a completely different way of working. I hate pre-commit hooks, and agree that pre-push + early step is CI is the right thing to do.

pojzon

5 days ago

You dont have to install hooks. Its that simple.

Be prepared to have your PR blocked tho.

andrewaylett

6 days ago

You shouldn't be relying on hooks to maintain the integrity of your codebase, and I'm not seeing anything here that makes me want to avoid `pre-commit` (or, more literally, the https://pre-commit.com/ tool). CI must be the source of truth for whether a commit is acceptable.

If you're using `pre-commit` the tool, not merely the hook, you can also use something like https://github.com/andrewaylett/pre-commit-action to run the tool in CI. It's a really good way to share check definitions between local development and CI, meaning you've shifted your checks to earlier in the pipeline.

I use Jujutsu day-to-day, which doesn't even support pre-commit hooks. But the tooling is still really useful, and making sure we run it in CI means that we're not relying on every developer having the hooks set up. And I have JJ aliases that help pre-commit be really useful in a JJ workflow: https://github.com/andrewaylett/dotfiles/blob/7a79cf166d1e7b...

Spivak

6 days ago

pre-commit is a convenience for the developer to gain confidence that pre-flight checks in CI will pass. I've found trying to make them automatic just leads to pain when they interact with any non-trivial git feature and don't handle edge cases.

I've been much much happier just having a little project specific script I run when I want to do formatting/linting.

ltbarcly3

6 days ago

pre-commit is just a bad way to do this. 99.9% of my commits won't pass CI. I don't care. I run `git wip` which is an alias for `git commit -am "WIP"` about every 15 minutes during the day. Whenever things are in a running state. I often go back through this history on my branch to undo changes or revisit decisions, especially during refactors, especially when leveraging AI. When the most work you can lose is about 15 minutes you stop looking before you leap. Sometimes a hunch pays off and you finish a very large task in a fraction of the time you might have spent if you were ploddingly careful. Very often a hunch doesn't pay off and you have to go recover stuff from your git history, which is very easy and not hard at all once you build that muscle. The cost/benefit isn't even close, it makes me easily 2x faster when refactoring code or adding a feature to existing code, probably more. It is 'free' for greenfield work, neither helping nor really hurting. At the end the entire branch is squashed down to one commit anyway, so why would you ever not want to have free checkpoints all the time?

As I'm saying this, I'm realizing I should just wire up Emacs to call `git add {file_being_saved} && git commit -am "autocheckpoint"` every time I save a file. (I will have to figure out how to check if I'm in the middle of some operation like a merge or rebase to not mess those up.)

I'm perfectly happy to have the CI fail if I forget to run the CI locally, which is rare but does happen. In that case I lose 5 minutes or whatever because I have to go find the branch and fix the CI failure and re-push it. The flip side of that is I rarely lose hours of work, or end up painting myself in a corner because commit is too expensive and slows me down and I'm subconsciously avoiding it.

nirvdrum

6 days ago

If you’re just committing for your own sake, that workflow sounds productive. I’ve been asked to review PRs with 20+ commits with a “wip” or “.” commit message with the argument: “it’ll be squash merged, so who cares!”. I’m sure that works well for the author, but it’s not great for the reviewer. Breaking change sets up into smaller logical chunks really helps with comprehension. I’m not generally a fan of people being cavalier with my time so they can save their own.

For my part, I find the “local history” feature of the JetBrains IDEs gives me automatic checkpoints I can roll back to without needing to involve git. On my Linux machines I layer in ZFS snapshots (Time Machine probably works just as well for Macs). This gives me the confidence to work throughout the day without needing to compulsively commit. These have the added advantage of tracking files I haven’t yet added to the git repo.

jghn

6 days ago

There are two halves here. Up until the PR is open, the author should feel free to have 20+ "wip" commits. Or in my case "checkpoint". However, it is also up to the author to curate their commits before pushing it and opening the PR.

So when I open a Pr, I'll have a branch with a gajillion useless commits, and then curate them down to a logical set of commits with appropriate commit messages. Usually this is a single commit, but if I want to highlight some specific pieces as being separable for a reviewer, it'll be multiple commits.

The key point here is that none of those commits exist until just before I make my final push prior to a PR.

nirvdrum

6 days ago

I clean up commits locally as well. But, I really only commit when I think I have something working and then collapse any lint or code formatting commits from there. Sometimes I need to check another branch and am too lazy to set up worktrees, so I may create a checkpoint commit and name it a way that reminds me to do a `git reset HEAD^` and resume working from there.

But, if you're really worried about losing 15 minutes of work, I think we have better tools at our disposal, including those that will clean up after themselves over time. Now that I've been using ZFS with automatic snapshots, I feel hamstrung working on any Linux system just using ext4 without LVM. I'm aware this isn't a common setup, but I wish it were. It's amazing how liberating it is to edit code, update a config file, install a new package, etc. are when you know you can roll back the entire system with one simple command (or, restore a single file if you need that granularity). And it works for files you haven't yet added to the git repo.

I guess my point is: I think we have better tools than git for automatic backups and I believe there's a lot of opportunity in developer tooling to help guard against common failure scenarios.

jghn

5 days ago

I don't commit as a backup. I commit for other reasons.

Most common is I'm switching branches. Example use case: I'm working locally, and a colleague has a PR open. I like to check out their branch when reviewing as then I can interact with their code in my IDE, try running it in ways they may not have thought of, etc.

Another common reason I switch branches is that sometimes I want to try my code on another machine. Maybe I'm changing laptops. Maybe I want to try the code on a different machine for some reason. Whatever. So I'll push a WIP branch with no intention of it passing any sort of CI/CD just so I can check it out on the other machine.

The throughline here is that these are moments where the current state of my branch is in no shape, way, or form intended as an actual valid state. It just whatever state my code happened to be in before I need to save it.

Erenay09

5 days ago

I'm thinking of writing a tool related to the "checkpoint" system when I have some free time. Do you have any advices?

andrewaylett

4 days ago

I think you might appreciate https://www.jj-vcs.dev, which makes it a lot easier to split and recombine changes. I often use it for checkpoints, although you wouldn't see that from looking at what I push :).

One nifty feature is that commits don't need messages, and also it'll refuse (by default) to push commits with no message. So your checkpoint commits are really easy to create, and even easier to avoid pushing by mistake.

ltbarcly3

6 days ago

Why do you care about the history of a branch? Just look at the diff. Caring about the history of a branch is weird, I think your approach is just not compatible with how people work.

koolba

6 days ago

A well laid out history of logical changes makes reviewing complicated change sets easier. Rather than one giant wall of changes, you see a series of independent, self contained, changes that can be reviewed on their own.

Having 25 meaningless “wip” commits does not help with that. It’s fine when something is indeed a work in progress. But once it’s ready for review it should be presented as a series of cleaned up changes.

If it is indeed one giant ball of mud, then it should be presented as such. But more often than not, that just shows a lack of discipline on the part of the creator. Variable renames, whitespace changes, and other cosmetic things can be skipped over to focus on the meat of the PR.

From my own experience, people who work in open source and have been on the review side of large PRs understand this the best.

Really the goal is to make things as easy as possible for the reviewer. The simpler the reviews process, the less reviewer time you’re wasting.

Izkata

6 days ago

> A well laid out history of logical changes makes reviewing complicated change sets easier.

I've been on a maintenance team for years and it's also been a massive help here, in our svn repos where squashing isn't possible. Those intermediate commits with good messages are the only context you get years down the line when the original developers are gone or don't remember reasons for something, and have been a massive help so many times.

I'm fine with manual squashing to clean up those WIP commits, but a blind squash-merge should never be done. It throws away too much for no good reason.

For one quick example, code linting/formatting should always be a separate commit. A couple times I've seen those introduce bugs, and since it wasn't squashed it was trivial to see what should have happened.

ltbarcly3

6 days ago

I agree, in a job where you have no documentation and no CI, and are working on something almost as old or older than you with ancient abandoned tools like svn that stopped being relevant 20 years ago, and in a fundamentally dysfunctional company/organization that hasn't bothered to move off of dead/dying tools in the last 20 years, then you just desperately grab at anything you can possibly find to try to avoid breaking things. But there are far better solutions to all of the problems you are mentioning than trying to make people create little mini feature commits on their way to a feature.

Izkata

6 days ago

It is not possible to manually document everything down to individual lines of code. You'll drive yourself crazy trying to do so (and good luck getting anyone to look at that massive mess), and that's not even counting how documentation easily falls out of date. Meanwhile, we have "git blame" designed to do exactly that with almost no effort - just make good commit messages while the context is in your head.

CI also doesn't necessarily help here - you have to have tests for all possible edge cases committed from day one for it to prevent these situations. It may be a month or a year or several years later before you hit one of the weird cases no one thought about.

Calling svn part of the problem is also kind of backwards - it has no bearing on the code quality itself, but I brought it up because it was otherwise forcing good practice because it doesn't allow you to erase context that may be useful later.

Over the time I've been here we've migrated from Bugzilla to Fogbugz to Jira, from an internal wiki to ReadTheDocs to Confluence, and some of these hundreds of repos we manage started in cvs, not svn, and are now slowly being migrated to git. Guess what? The cvs->svn->git migrations are the only ones that didn't lose any data. None of the Bugzilla cases still exist and only a very small number were migrated from FogBugz to Jira. Some of the internal wiki was migrated directly to Confluence (and lost all formatting and internal links in the process), but ReadTheDocs are all gone. Commit messages are really the only thing you can actually rely on.

ltbarcly3

4 days ago

> Calling svn part of the problem is also kind of backwards - it has no bearing on the code quality itself

Lets just be Bayesian for a minute. If an organization can't figure out how to get off of svn, which is a dead and dying technology within 15-20 years of it being basically dead in most of tech then probably it's not not going to be nimble in other ways. Probably it's full of people who don't really do any work.

> Some of the internal wiki was migrated directly to Confluence (and lost all formatting and internal links in the process)

Dude this is what I mean. How did someone manage to mess this up? It's not exactly rocket science to script something to suck out of one wiki and shove into another one. But lets say it's hard to do (it's not). Did they just not even bother to look at what they did? They just figured "meh" and declared victory and then three were no consequences, nobody bothered to go back and redo it or fix it? Moving stuff between wiki's is an intern-skill-level task. This is another example that screams that the people at your work don't do their jobs and don't care about their work, and that this is tolerated or more likely not even noticed. Do you work for the government?

> Commit messages are really the only thing you can actually rely on.

I suspect you are exaggerating how reliable your commit messages are, considering.

ltbarcly3

6 days ago

> A well laid out history of logical changes makes reviewing complicated change sets easier. Rather than one giant wall of changes, you see a series of independent, self contained, changes that can be reviewed on their own.

But this would require hand curation? No development proceeds that way, or if it does then I would question whether the person is spending 80% of their day curating PRs unnecessarily.

I think you must be kind of senior and you can get away with just insisting that other people be less efficient and work in a weird way so you can feel more comfortable?

koolba

6 days ago

> But this would require hand curation? No development proceeds that way, or if it does then I would question whether the person is spending 80% of their day curating PRs unnecessarily.

If you’re working on something and a piece of it is clearly self contained, you commit it and move on.

> I think you must be kind of senior and you can get away with just insisting that other people be less efficient and work in a weird way so you can feel more comfortable?

You can work however you like. But when it’s time to ask someone else to review your work, the onus is on you to clean it up to simplify review. Otherwise you’re saying your time is more valuable than the reviewer’s.

nirvdrum

6 days ago

> But this would require hand curation? No development proceeds that way, or if it does then I would question whether the person is spending 80% of their day curating PRs unnecessarily.

It's not really hand curation if you're deliberate about it from the get-go. It's certainly not eating up 80% of anyone's time.

Structuring code and writing useful commits a skill to develop, just like writing meaningful tests. As a first step, use `git add -p` instead of `git add .` or `git commit -a`. As an analog, many junior devs will just test everything, even stuff that doesn't make a lot of sense, and then jumble them all together. It takes practice to learn how to better structure that stuff and it isn't done by writing a ton of tests and then curating them after the fact.

> I think you must be kind of senior and you can get away with just insisting that other people be less efficient and work in a weird way so you can feel more comfortable?

Your personal productivity should only be one consideration. The long-term health of the project (i.e., maintenance) and the impact on other people's efficiency also must be considered. And efficiency isn't limited to how quickly features ship. Someone who ships fast but makes it much harder to debug issues isn't a top performer. At least, in my experience. I'd imagine it's team, company, and segment-dependent. For OSS projects with many part-time contributors, that history becomes really important because you may not have the future ability to ask someone why they did something a particular way.

ltbarcly3

4 days ago

Aha, I see the issue here. What you seem to organize into cute little self contained 'commit's I would put on individual 'branches'.

It is too hard for you to get someone to look at a PR, so you are packing multiple 'related' but not interdependent changes into one PR as individual commits so you can minimize the number of times you have to get someone to hit "approve", which is the limiting resource.

In your situation then I believe your way of working is a rational adaptation, but only so far as you lack the influence to address the underlying organizational/behavioral dysfunction. We agree on the underlying need to make good messages, but where I merge 4-5 small branches per day, each squashed to one commit, you are saving them all up to get them (unnecessarily) put into a single merge commit.

Just as "Structuring code" is a skill to develop, so is building healthy organizations.

jghn

6 days ago

> No development proceeds that way,

I do this. Also I do not spend 80% of my time doing it. It's not hard, nor is it time consuming.

bigstrat2003

6 days ago

On the contrary, it seems to me that it is your approach which is incompatible with others. I'm not the same person you were replying to but I want the history of a branch to be coherent, not a hot mess of meaningless commits. I do my best to maintain my branches such that they can be merged without squashing, that way it reflects the actual history of how the code was written.

ltbarcly3

6 days ago

This is not how code is actually written.

hxtk

6 days ago

It's how code is written in Google (including their open-source products like AOSP and Chromium), the ffmpeg project, the Linux Kernel, Git, Docker, the Go compiler, Kubernetes, Bitcoin, etc, and it's how things are done at my workplace.

I'm surprised by how confident you are that things simply aren't done this way considering the number of high-profile users of workflows where the commit history is expected to tell a story of how the software evolved over time.

ltbarcly3

6 days ago

"It's how code is written" then you list like the 6 highest profile, highest investment premier software projects on Earth like that's just normal.

I'm surprised by how confident you are when you can only name projects you've never worked on. I wanted to find a commit of yours to prove my point, but I can't find a line of code you've written.

nirvdrum

6 days ago

> Why do you care about the history of a branch?

Presumably, a branch is a logical segment of work. Otherwise, just push directly master/trunk/HEAD. It's what people did for a long time with CVS and arguably worked to some extent. Using merge commits is pretty common and, as such, that branch will get merged into the trunk. Being able to understand that branch in isolation is something I've found helpful in understanding the software as a whole.

> Caring about the history of a branch is weird, I think your approach is just not compatible with how people work.

I get you disagree with me, but you could be less dismissive about it. Work however you want -- I'm certainly not stopping you. I just don't your productivity to come at the expense of mine. And, I offered up other potential (and IMHO, superior) solutions from both developer and system tools.

I suppose what type of project you're working on matters. The "treat git like a versioned zip file" using squashed merges works reasonably well for SaaS applications because you rarely need to roll anything back. However, I've found a logically structured history has been indispensable when working on long-lived projects, particularly in open source. It's how I'm able to dig into a 25 year old OSS tool and be reasonably productive with.

To the point I think you're making: sure, I care what changed, and I can do that with `diff`. But, more often if I'm looking at SCM history I'm trying to learn why a change was made. Some of that can be inferred by seeing what other changes were made at the same time. That context can be explicitly provided with commit messages that explain why a change was made.

Calling it incompatible with how people work is a pretty bold claim, given the practice of squash merging loads of mini commits is a pretty recent development. Maybe that's how your team works and if it works for you, great. But, having logically separate commits isn't some niche development practice. Optimizing for writes could be useful for a startup. A lot of real world software requires being easy to maintain and a good SCM history shines there.

All of that is rather orthogonal to the point I was trying to add to the discussion. We have better tools at our disposal than running `git commit` every 15 minutes.

yearolinuxdsktp

6 days ago

This is why I appreciate JetBrains IDEs having a local history tracked automatically. It helps go back instead of relying on frequent commits.

andrewaylett

6 days ago

Not everyone in my team wires up their pre-commit hook to run the pre-commit tool. I use JJ, so I don't even have a pre-commit hook to wire up. But the tool is useful.

The key thing (that several folk have pointed out) is that CI runs the canonical checks. Using something like pre-commit (the tool) makes it easier to at least vaguely standardise making sure that you can run the same checks that CI will run. Having it run from the pre-commit hook fits nicely into many workflows, my own pre-JJ workflow included.

conradludgate

6 days ago

I've worked in several projects where running the tests locally automatically install pre-commit hooks and I've wanted to commit warcrimes because of it.

Don't do that, just dont.

ardeaver

6 days ago

At my last job, we ran all of our tests, linting/formatting, etc. through pre-commit hooks. It was apparently a historical relic of a time where five developers wanted to push directly to master without having to configure CI.

I too was about to become a war criminal.

Simplita

6 days ago

I’ve seen similar issues once hooks start doing more than fast checks. The moment they become stateful or depend on external context, they stop being guardrails and start being a source of friction. In practice, keeping them boring and deterministic seems to matter more than catching everything early.

burnt-resistor

6 days ago

A workflow that works well is one that takes the better ideas from Meta's "hg"+"arcanist"+edenfs+"phabricator" diff and land strategy. Git, by itself, is too low-level for shared, mostly single-source-of-truth yet distributed dev.

Make test cases all green locally before pushing, but not in a way that interferes with pushing code and they shouldn't be tied to a particular (D)VCS. Allow uploading all of the separate proposed PRs you want in a proposed "for review" state. After a PR is signed-off and sent for merging, it goes into a linearizing single source of truth backed by an automated testing/smoke testing process before they land "auto-fast-forwarded" in a mostly uncontrolled manner that doesn't allow editing the history directly. Standardization and simplicity are good, and so is requiring peer review of code before it's accepted for existing, production, big systems.

Disallow editing trunk/main/master and whenever there's merge conflict between PRs, manual rebasing of one or the other is required. Not a huge deal.

Also, have structured OWNERS files that include people and/or distribution list(s) of people who own/support stuff. Furthermore, have a USERS file that keeps lists of people who would be affected by restarting/interrupting/changing a particular codebase/service for notification purposes too. In general, monorepo and allowing submitting code for any area by anyone are roughly good approaches.

lemonlime227

6 days ago

To bring up jujutsu, `jj fix` (https://docs.jj-vcs.dev/latest/cli-reference/#jj-fix) is a more refined way of ensuring formatting in commits. It runs a formatting command with the diff in stdin and uses the results printed to stdout. It can simplify merges and rebases history to ensure all your commits remain formatted (so if you enable a new formatting option, it can remove the need for a special format/style fix commit in your mutable set). Hard to go back to pre-commit hooks after using jj fix (also hard to use git after using jj ;) ).

conradludgate

6 days ago

The downside currently (although I've been assured this will be fixed one day) is that it doesn't support running static analysis over each commit you want to fix.

My git rebase workflow often involves running `git rebase -x "cargo clippy -- --deny=warnings"`. This needs a full checkout to work and not just a single file input

lemonlime227

6 days ago

Yeah, to add some context for people reading this, jj fix works best for edits local to the diff, and it’s meant for edits mostly. With some trickery you could run some analysis, but it’s not what jj fix is meant for right now.

The intended future solution is `jj run` (https://docs.jj-vcs.dev/latest/design/run/), which applies similar ideas to more general commands.

dbt00

6 days ago

Came here to mention jj fix. It is a fundamentally more elegant way of doing things.

anttiharju

6 days ago

I think the examples given in the post are just done poorly.

Lefthook with glob+stage_fixed for formatters makes one of the issues raised a complete non-issue.

I'll write a in-depth post about it maybe within the next week or so, been diving into these in my hobby projects for a year or so.

jghn

6 days ago

On any project where pre-commit hooks are used, the first thing I do is disable them. What I do when the code is on my side of the line isn't your business.

benrutter

6 days ago

I agree on the other side of the fence! I quite like precommit when I use it, but I've never imposed it on any of my projects. Some people use commits sporadically then squash down- I really don't feel comfortable breaking someone's personal workflow to that degree.

I almost always have a "this cicd must pass to merge" job, that includes linting etc, and then use squash commits exclusively when merging.

jghn

6 days ago

Yes, big fan of enforcing standards via CI/CD workflows. Any rules a group wishes to be met should be in there. As long as someone meets those rules by the time they open a PR, I don't care how they get there.

ncgl

6 days ago

Would you add type: ignore to all the files too?

My coworker did that the other day and I'm deciding how to respond.

Phlebsy

6 days ago

Sure, if the warning levels are poorly tuned I might configure my LSP to ignore everything and loosen the enforcement in the build steps until I'm ready to self review. Something I can't stand with Typescript for example is when the local development server has as strict rules as the production builds. There's no good reason to completely block doing anything useful whatsoever just because of an unused variable, unreachable code, or because a test that is never going to get committed dared to have an 'any' type.

jghn

6 days ago

An example I like to use are groups that put their autofmratter into a pre-commit. Why should I be held to the formatting rules for code before I send my code to anyone?

I'm particular about formatting, and it doesn't always match group norms. So I'll reformat things to my preferred style while working locally, and then reformat before pushing. However I may have several commits locally that then ge curated out of existence prior to pushing.

jghn

6 days ago

Not if I push my branch it to origin. But until I do that, it's none of your concern if I do or don't. Once it gets thrown over the wall to my colleagues and/or the general public, that's the point where I should be conforming to repo norms. Not before then.

000ooo000

6 days ago

Your hook can't observe a simple env var, if you are stepping off the happy path of your workflow? E.g. `GIT_HOOK_BYEBYE` = early return in hook script. Article seems a little dramatic. If you write a pre-commit hook that is a pain in your own arse, how does that make them fundamentally broken?

thomashabets2

6 days ago

I feel like I found better git commands for this, that don't have these problems. It's not perfect, sure, but works for me.

The pre commit script (https://github.com/ThomasHabets/rustradio/blob/main/extra/pr...) triggers my executor which sets up the pre commit environment like so: https://github.com/ThomasHabets/rustradio/blob/main/tickbox/...

I run this on every commit. Sure, I have probably gone overboard, but it has prevented problems, and I may be too picky about not having a broken HEAD. But if you want to contribute, you don't have to run any pre commit. It'll run on every PR too.

I don't send myself PRs, so this works for me.

Of course I always welcome suggestions and critique on how to improve my workflow.

And least nothing is stateful (well, it caches build artefacts), and aside from "cargo deny" no external deps.

000ooo000

6 days ago

Only a minor suggestion: git worktrees is a semi-recent addition that may be nicer than your git archive setup

badgersnake

6 days ago

Yep, all that and they’re also annoying. Version control tools are not supposed to argue - do what you’re told. If I messed up, the branch build will tell me.

thomashabets2

6 days ago

Is that the difference between forced pre commits vs opt in? I don't want to commit something that doesn't build. If nothing else it makes future bisects annoying.

But if I intend to squash and merge, then who cares about intermediate state.

normie3000

6 days ago

> I don't want to commit something that doesn't build.

This is a really interesting perspective. Personally I commit code that will fail the build multiple times per day. I only care that something builds at the point it gets merged to master.

hbogert

6 days ago

so basically, not adhering to atomic commits. That's fine if it's a deliberate choice, but some people like me think commits should stand on their own.

(i'm assuming your are not squashing when merging, else it's pretty much the same workflow)

normie3000

6 days ago

> i'm assuming your are not squashing when merging, else it's pretty much the same workflow

I AM squashing before merging. Pre-commit hooks run on any commit on any branch, AFAIK. In any serious repo I'd never be committing to master directly.

bawolff

6 days ago

Honestly, i find that a really weird view. I use (Local) commits for work in progress. I feel like insisting on atomic commits in your local checkout defeats the entire purpose of using a tool like git.

What do you do when you are working on something and are forced to switch to working on something else in the middle of it?

thomashabets2

6 days ago

I'm merely the grandparent commenter, not the one you replied to directly, but I can tell you what I do for checkpointing some exploratory work or "I'll continue this next week".

I usually put it on a branch, even if this project otherwise does all its development on the main branch. And I commit it without running precommits, and with a commit message prefix "WIP: ". If it's on a branch you can even push it to not lose work if your local machine breaks/is stolen.

When it's time to get it into the main branch I rebase to squash commits into working ones.

Now, if my final commit history of say 3 commits all actually build at each commit? For personal projects, no. Diminishing returns. But in a collaborative environment: How fun will it be for future you, or your team mates, to run bisect if half the commits don't even build?

I have this workflow because it's so easy to add a feature, breaking 3 tests, to be fixed later. And formatting is bad. And now I add another change, and I just keep digging and one can end up in a "oh no, how did I end up here?" state where different binaries in the tree need to be synced to different commits to even build.

> I feel like insisting on atomic commits in your local checkout defeats the entire purpose of using a tool like git.

WIP commits is hardly the only benefit of git or other DVCS over things like subversion.

NekkoDroid

6 days ago

> What do you do when you are working on something and are forced to switch to working on something else in the middle of it?

`git stash` is always an option :) but even if you want to commit it, you can always undo (or `--amend`) the commit when you get back to working. I personally am also a big fan of `git rebase -i` and all the things it allows me to fix up in the history before merging (rebasing) in to the main branch.

bawolff

6 days ago

All of those are things i would refer to as making a commit :)

hbogert

6 days ago

I interpreted the parents post as: as long as my combination of commits results in something working before getting merged, it's fine.

Local wip commits didn't come to mind at all

bawolff

6 days ago

Well we are in a discussion about pre-commit hooks. Pre-commit hooks run on local wip commits.

thomashabets2

6 days ago

Well, unless you inhibit them with `-n`. Which I would for WIP commits.

badgersnake

6 days ago

Then what’s the point? Just leave them off and run the tests when you want to run them.

thomashabets2

5 days ago

Because 99% of my commits are not WIP commits. So I almost always want to run them.

Hell, even most WIP commits will pass the tests (e.g. tests are not yet added for the new code), so I'd run them then too.

normie3000

5 days ago

Some people write tests first.

thomashabets2

4 days ago

And commit in such that the final timeline has broken tests for half of commits?

Sounds like an awful way to live your life.

normie3000

18 hours ago

No, we're not talking about the final timeline. That is finalised when (or if) code is merged to the mainline. We're talking about what happens when the command "git commit" is executed.

thomashabets2

8 hours ago

Ok, if you're talking about just WIP commits that will be squashed and will never be part of mainline, then shrug.

For me that's a tiny proportion of commits. I'd rather avoid taking a whole finished feature branch and then spend more time cleaning up a sloppy commit history.

Sure, sometimes it's correct to squash, but for nontrivial changes I go with https://github.com/google/eng-practices/blob/master/review/d...

OJFord

6 days ago

The first step of which I usually have as pre-commit run --all-files (using the third-party tool of the same name as git feature) - so running locally automatically on changed files just gives me an early warning. It can be nice to run unit tests locally too, btw.

bilbo-b-baggins

5 days ago

I’ve used pre-commit the tool and now prek for the better part of a decade and never had these issues even using rebase flows exclusively. This seems like an operator error.

souperdeluxe

5 days ago

Without pre-commit you should squash on merge. That way main is atomic. But squashing loses granularity. A single merge commit might both refactor a function and implement a feature. You could split it into two pull requests, but maybe the feature depends on the refactor. Now your feature branch needs to cherry pick from the refactor branch. What if the refactor branch makes further changes prior to being merged? Now your feature branch has conflicts.

With pre-commit you can disable squashing on merge. You'll have a refactor commit and a feature commit. Changes to the refactor can be --fixup followed by rebase. I find this much easier than juggling two pull requests.

I accept that this is only viable with buy-in from everyone on the team, and I wouldn't advise it for teams over 10 people. But for small teams, I love pre-commit and trunk-based development.

dboreham

6 days ago

Good to see this having spent the last 10 years arguing with people who configured pre commit hooks then failed to understand the bad consequences.

temporallobe

6 days ago

I don’t really like pre-commit hooks, but I do think that git-secrets is a very useful one since once a secret is in the commit history, it’s a hassle (though not impossible) to remove it. All other issues can and should be caught early as an optionally blocking step in a CI/CD pipeline build.

amluto

5 days ago

Home Assistant takes this one step farther. There is a pre-run hook that goes out its way to make it hard to run an “integration” that doesn’t meet its quality standard. I get that they don’t want to get PRs for integrations that don’t check the checklist, but as someone writing an integration (which I’m currently doing, for better or for worse), I want to run my own incomplete integration, thank you very much.

(One very nice thing about AI-assisted programming: Claude is not offended by duplicating the same code over and over and using utterly awful APIs, and Claude feels no particular compulsion to get distracted thinking about how the APIs I’m targeting could be made to be less awful. Try asking the Home Assistant docs how an integration is supposed to handle a hot-added entity after an integration finishes setup: you will not get an answer. Ask Claude and it will cheerfully copy the ludicrous and obviously inappropriate solution used by other integrations. Sometimes semi-blindly doing something that works is the right solution when writing piles of glue code.)

drio

4 days ago

Curious to hear what integration you are working on.

I am thinking about making this (1) into an integration also. It is an alternative way to visualize forecasts. It uses the dew point instead of temperature. I currently use a dashboard that shows the site on an iframe within Home Assistant.

1. https://observablehq.com/@drio/shader-galaxy

amluto

4 days ago

Lutron QS Standalone, to control Lutron devices via the QSE-CI-NWK-E.

pojzon

5 days ago

So many ppl do not understand you dont have to install precommit hooks or you can disable them locally when working on a temp brach is astounding.

user

4 days ago

[deleted]

a_t48

6 days ago

Running on the working tree is mostly okay - just `exit 1` if changes were made and allow the user to stage+commit new changes. It isn't perfect but it doesn't require checking out a new tree.

seniorsassycat

6 days ago

What if I've already fixed the format issue (but not staged it). The pre-commit hook will pass, but it's not doing what the author intended (preventing unformated code from being committed).

What if I've only staged one part of a file, but the pre-commit hook fails on the unstaged portions, which should be fine since I'm not commiting or pushing those changes.

a_t48

5 days ago

You can stash it or `git commit -n`. Perfect is the enemy of good enough.

jynelson

6 days ago

this completely breaks `git add -p`.

a_t48

5 days ago

You can either do another `git add -p` after to stage the fixed formatting or do `git add -pn`

odie5533

6 days ago

They are annoying to setup and maintain and contain footguns. I will still use them with prek though because they save dev cycles back-and-forth with CI more than they hurt. I aim to have the hooks complete in under 1 second total. If it saves even a single CI cycle, I think that's a win time wise.

wolfi1

6 days ago

why do people rebase so often? shouldn't it be excluded from the usual workflows as you are losing commit history as well?

geon

6 days ago

To get a commit history that makes sense. It’s not supposed to document in what order you did the work, but why and how a change was made. when I’m knee deep in some rewrite and realize I should have changed something else first, I can just go do that change, then come back and rebase.

And in the feature branches/merge requests, I don’t merge, only rebase. Rebasing should be the default workflow. Merging adds so many problems for no good reason.

There are use cases for merging, but not as the normal workflow.

cluckindan

6 days ago

That is just not true. Merging is so much less work and the branch history clearly indicates when merging has happened.

With rebasing, there could be a million times the branch was rebased and you would have no idea when and where something got broken by hasty conflict resolution.

When conflicts happen, rebasing is equivalent to merging, just at the commit level instead of at branch level, so in the worst case, developers are met with conflict after conflict, which ends up being a confusing mental burden on less experienced devs and certainly a ”trust the process” kind of workflow for experienced ones as well.

geon

6 days ago

The master branch never gets merged, so it is linear. Finding a bug is very simple with bisect. All commits are atomic, so the failing commit clearly shows the bug.

If you want to keep track of what commits belongs to a certain pr, you can still have an empty merge commit at the end of the rebase. Gitlab will add that for you automatically.

The ”hasty conflict resolution ” makes a broken merge waaaay harder to fix than a broken rebase.

And rebasing makes you take care of each conflict one commit at a time, which makes it order by magnitudes easier to get them right, compared to trying to resolve them all in a single merge commit.

cluckindan

6 days ago

Linear history is nice, but it is lacking the conflict resolutions. They are never committed, and neither are the ”fix rebase” instances.

Having a ”fix broken merge” commit makes it explicit that there was an issue that was fixed.

Rebase sometimes seems like an attempt at saving face.

geon

6 days ago

That’s the whole point. You do it properly, so there IS no conflict.

cluckindan

5 days ago

No. There is a conflict during a rebase, you resolve it, and then it’s like there never was a conflict.

Even if you do it properly, the workflow is erasing history of that conflict existing and needing to be resolved. It leaves no trace of what has been worked on, when, and by whom.

geon

4 days ago

Can you give an example? I think we are talking past each other. This is not my experience at all.

cluckindan

4 days ago

Create new branch A off main.

Do some work on a file, commit 1 to branch A.

Meanwhile, in another branch B created off main, someone else commits changes to the same part of the same file.

That other branch B gets merged to main.

Now, rebase branch A onto main.

The rebase stops at the commit 1 due to a conflict between main and branch A.

Fix the conflict and commit. This erases commit 1 and creates new commit 1' where the conflict has never existed. History has been rewritten.

Rebase successfully completes, branch A now contains different commits than previously, so it will need to be force-pushed to remote if it already exists there. The protocol has resistance against changing history.

Merge branch A to main.

No commit in main now contains any information that there was a conflict that was fixed.

Had a pull request workflow been used, the ”merge main to A” merge commit message would detail which files were conflicting. No such commit is made when using a rebase workflow, chasing those clean fast-forward merges.

sunshowers

6 days ago

Do you know what criss-cross merges are and why they're bad?

cluckindan

5 days ago

I’m sure you’re here to educate me, but this is not about criss-cross merges between two different work branches, this is about whether it’s better to rebase a work branch onto the main branch, or to pull the changes from the main branch to the work branch.

sunshowers

5 days ago

I have an early draft of a blog post about them :) as a source control expert who built both these systems and tooling on top of them for many years, I think they're the biggest and most fundamental reason rebases/linear history are better than merges.

> whether it’s better to rebase a work branch onto the main branch, or to pull the changes from the main branch to the work branch.

The problem with this is that the latter has an infinitely higher chance of resulting in criss-cross merges than the former (which is 0).

WorldMaker

4 days ago

It's definitely not 0 because rebase heavy workflows involve the rerere cache which is a minefield of per-repo hidden merge changes. You get the results of "criss-cross merges" as "ghosts" you can't easily debug because there aren't good UI tools for the rerere cache. About the best you can do is declare rerere cache bankruptcy and make sure every repo clears their rerere cache.

I know that worst case isn't all that common or everyone would be scared of rebases, but I've seen it enough that I have a healthy disrespect of rebase heavy workflows and try to avoid them when given the option/in charge of choosing the tools/workflows/processes.

sunshowers

3 days ago

To be honest I've used rebase-heavy workflows for 15 years and never used rerere, so I can't comment on that (been a happy Jujutsu user for a few years — I've always wondered what the constituency for rerere is, and I'm curious if you could tell me!) I definitely agree in general that whenever you have a cache, you have to think about cache invalidation.

WorldMaker

3 days ago

rerere is used automatically by git to cache certain merge conflict fixes encountered during a rebase so that you don't have to reapply them more than once rebasing the same branch later. In general, when it works, which is most of the time, it's part of what keeps rebases feeling easy and lightweight despite capturing in the final commit output sometimes a fraction of the data of a real merge commit. The rerere cache is in some respects a hidden collection of the rest of a merge commit.

In git, the merge (and merge commit) is the primitive and rebase a higher level operation on top of them with a complex but not generally well understood cache with only a few CLI commands and just about no UI support anywhere.

Like I said, because the rerere cache is so out-of-sight/out-of-mind that's why problems with it become weird and hard to debug. The situations I've seen that have been truly rebase-heavy workflows with multiple "git flow" long-running branches and even sometimes cherry picking between them. (Generally the same sorts of things that create "criss-cross merge scenarios".) Rebased commits start to bring in regressions from other branches. Rebased commits start to break builds randomly. If what is getting rebased is a long-running branch you probably don't have eyes on every commit, so finding where these hidden merge regressions happen becomes full branch bisects, you can't just focus on merge commits because you don't have them anymore, every commit is a candidate for a bad merge in a rebased branch.

Personally, I'd rather have real merge commits where you can trace both parents and the code not from either parent (conflict fixes), and you don't have to worry about ghosts of bad merges showing up in any random commit. Even the worst "criss-cross merge" commits are obvious in a commit log and I've seen have had enough data to surgically fix, often nearly as soon as they happen. rerere cache problems are things that can go unnoticed for weeks to everyone's confusion and potentially a lot of hidden harm. You can't easily see both parents of the merges involved. You might even have multiple repos with competing rerere caches alternating damage.

But also yes rerere cache problems are so generally infrequent that it might also take weeks of research, when it does happen, just to figure out what the rerere cache is for, that it might be the cause of some of your "merge ghosts" haunting your codebase, and how to clean it.

Obviously by the point where you are rebasing git flow-style long runnning branches and using frequent cherry picks you're in a rebase heavy workflow that is painful for other reasons and maybe that's an even heavier step beyond "rebase heavy" to some, but because the rerere cache is involved to some degree in every rebase once you stop trusting the rerere cache it can be hard to trust any rebase heavy workflow again. Like I said, personally I like the integration history/logs/investigatable diffs that real merge commits provide and prefer tools like `--first-parent` when I need "linear history" views/bisects.

sunshowers

3 days ago

You have to turn rerere on, though, right? I've never done that. I've also never worked with long-running branches — tend to strongly prefer integrating into main and using feature flags if necessary. Jujutsu doesn't have anything like rerere as far as I know.

WorldMaker

3 days ago

Hmm, yeah looks like it is default off. Probably some git flow automation tool or other sort of bad corporate/consultant disseminated default config at a past job left the impression that it was default on. It's the solution to a lot of papercuts working with long-running branches as well as the source of new problems as stated above; problems that are visible with merge commits but hidden in rebases.

xen0

6 days ago

Your real commit history is irrelevant. I don't care too much about how you came to a particular state.

The overall project history though, the clarity of changes made, and that bisecting reliably works are important to me.

Or another way; the important unit is whatever your unit of code review is. If you're not reviewing and checking individual commits, they're just noise in the history; the commit messages are not clear and I cannot reliably bisect on them (since nobody is checking that things build).

mcny

6 days ago

I write really poopy commit messages. Think "WIP" type nonsense. I branch off of the trunk, even my branch name is poopy like

feature/{first initial} {last initial} DONOTMERGE {yyyy-MM-dd-hh-mm-ss}

Yes, the branch name literally says do not merge.

I commit anything and everything. Build fails? I still commit. If there is a stopping point and I feel like I might want to come back to this point, I commit.

I am violently against any pre commit hook that runs on all branches. What I do on my machine on my personal branch is none of your business.

I create new branches early and often. I take upstream changes as they land on the trunk.

Anyway, this long winded tale was to explain why I rebase. My commits aren't worth anything more than stopping points.

At the end, I create a nice branch name and there is usually only one commit before code review.

rkomorn

6 days ago

Isn't your tale more about squashing than rebasing?

OJFord

6 days ago

Any subsequent commits and the branch are inherently rebased on the squashed commit.

Rebasing is kind of a short hand for cherry-picking, fixing up, rewording, squashing, dropping, etc. because these things don't make sense in isolation.

rkomorn

6 days ago

I guess my point is that I disagree that rebasing should be shorthand for all these things that aren't rebasing.

OJFord

6 days ago

Well rebasing is exactly equivalent to moving the branch and then cherry-picking, and the others are among the commands available in rebase --interactive.

bawolff

6 days ago

Personally i squash using git rebase -i

user

6 days ago

[deleted]

loglog

6 days ago

I don't want to see any irrelevant history several years later, so I enforce linear history on the main branch in all projects that I work on. So far, nobody complained, and I've never seen a legitimate reason to deviate from this principle if you follow a trunk based release model.

hbogert

6 days ago

why would you lose commit history? You are just picking up a set of commits and reapplying them. Of course you can use rebase for more things, but rebase does not equal losing commit history.

cluckindan

4 days ago

Rebase always rewrites history, losing the original commits and creating new ones. They might have the same changes and the same commit messages, but they are different commits.

UqWBcuFx6NV4r

6 days ago

I think that only the most absolutely puritan git workflows wouldn’t allow a local rebase.

marginalia_nu

6 days ago

The sum of the re-written changes still amount to the same after a rebase. When would you need access to the pre-rebase history, and to what end?

seba_dos1

6 days ago

Well, sometimes you do if you made a mistake, but that's already handled by the reflog.

bawolff

6 days ago

Because gerrit.

But even if i wasn't using gerrit, sometimes its the easiest way to fix branches that are broken or restructure your work in a more clear way

nacozarina

6 days ago

really; keep reading about all the problems ppl have “every time I rebase” and I wonder what tomfoolery they’re really up to

seba_dos1

6 days ago

Unlike some other common operations that can be easily cargo-culted, rebasing is somewhat hard to do correctly when you don't understand git, so people who don't understand git get antagonistic towards it.

skydhash

6 days ago

Rebasing is basically working at the meta layer, when you are editing patches instead of the code that is being versionned. And due to that, it requires good understanding of the VCS.

Too often, merges is only understood as bring the changes from there to here, it may be useful especially if you have release candidates branches and hotfixes. And you want to keep a trave of that process. But I much prefer rebasing and/or squashing PR onto the main branch.

PunchyHamster

6 days ago

If it is something like repo for configuration management I can understand that because its often a lot of very small changes and so every second commit would be a merge, and it's just easier to read that way.

... for code, honestly no idea

cluckindan

4 days ago

If only there was a way to ignore merges from git log, or just show the merges…

(Hint: --no-merges, --merges)

tkzed49

6 days ago

Thank you. I don't need to "fix" a commit before it ends up on a remote branch. Sometimes I expect a commit to pass checks and sometimes I don't. Frankly, don't even run pre-push hooks. Just run the checks in CI when I push. You'd better be doing that anyway before I'm allowed to push to a production branch, so stop breaking my git workflows and save me the time of running duplicate checks locally.

Also, if most developers are using one editor, configure that editor to run format and auto-fix lint errors. That probably cleans up the majority of unexpected CI failures.

eru

6 days ago

Pre-commit and pre-push hooks are something developers can voluntarily add (or enable) to shorten the latency until they get feedback: instead of the CI rejecting their PR, they can (optionally!) get a local message about it.

Otherwise, I agree, your project can not rely on any checks running on the dev machine with git.

tkzed49

6 days ago

Appreciate the perspective. I've worked on projects where hooks are auto-configured, and pre-commit is just never something that's going to agree with me.

I prefer to be able to push instantly and get feedback async, because by the time I've decided I'm done with a change, I've already run the tests for it. And like I said, my editor is applying formatting and lints, so those fail more rarely.

But, if your pre-push checks are fast (rather than ~minutes), I can see the utility! It sucks to get an async failure for feedback that can be delivered quickly.

Marsymars

6 days ago

> But, if your pre-push checks are fast (rather than ~minutes), I can see the utility! It sucks to get an async failure for feedback that can be delivered quickly.

I'm a fan of pre-commit/push hooks, but they have to be fast. At <dayjob> our suite of pre-commit hooks are <50ms and pre-push hooks are <5s. They get regularly reviewed for performance, and if anything can't be made faster, slow pre-commit hooks will get ejected to pre-push, and slow pre-push hooks will get ejected to the regular CI suite.

PunchyHamster

6 days ago

In our case same hook is re-ran on server side; the pre-commit hook is purely to increase velocity

... and cos most people using git will have to take a second if the hook returns to them "hey, your third commit is incorrect, you forgot ticket number"

hbogert

6 days ago

I don't want roundtrips to my CI which easily takes a minute and pushes me to look at yet another window. Pre-commit hooks save me so much time.

Groxx

6 days ago

Literally the only pre-commit hook I've ever "liked" has been one to look for files over ~1/2MB, and error with a message describing how to bypass the check (env var). It stops the mistake at the easiest-to-identify point, and helped teach a lot of people about how to set gitignore or git-attributes correctly when it is most relevant and understandable. Every single other one has been a massive pain at some point...

... but even that one took several rounds of fiddling and complexifying to get it to behave correctly (e.g. merging commits with already-committed bypassed binaries should be allowed. how do you detect that? did you know to check for that scenario when building the hook? someone's gonna get bitten by it, and there are dozens of these cases).

So yea. Agreed. Do not use pre-commit hooks, they're far more trouble than they seem, and the failure modes / surprises are awful and can be quite hard to figure out to laymen who are experiencing it.

(much of this is true for all git hooks imo)

rurban

6 days ago

Not fundamentally broken, just broken on certain use cases where'd I have to do something like

  prek uninstall; g rbc; prek install
eg. (using the typical aliases)

user

5 days ago

[deleted]

PunchyHamster

6 days ago

This article is very much "you're holding it wrong"

> They tell me I need to have "proper formatting" and "use consistent style". How rude.

> Maybe I can write a pre-commit hook that checks that for me?

git filter is made for that. It works. There are still caveats (it will format whole file so you might end up commiting changes that are formatting fixed of not your own code).

Pre-commit is not for formatting your code. It's for checking whether commit is correct. Checking whether content has ticket ID, or whether the files pass even basic syntax validation

> Only add checks that are fast and reliable. Checks that touch the network should never go in a hook. Checks that are slow and require an update-to-date build cache should never go in a hook. Checks that require credentials or a running local service should never go in a hook.

If you can do that, great! If you can't (say it's something like CI/CD repo with a bunch of different language involved and not every dev have setup for everything to be checked locally), having to override it to not run twice a year is still preferable over committing not working code. We run local checks for stuff that make sense (checking YAML correctness, or decoding encrypted YAMLs with user key so they also get checked), but the ones that don't go remote. It's faster. few ms RTT don't matter when you can leverage big server CPU to run the checks faster

Bonus points, it makes the pain point - interactive rebases - faster, because you can cache the output for a given file hash globally so existing commits during rebase take miliseconds to check at most

> Don't set the hook up automatically. Whatever tool you use that promises to make this reliable is wrong. There is not a way to do this reliably, and the number of times it's broken on me is more than I can count. Please just add docs for how to set it up manually, prominantly featured in your CONTRIBUTING docs. (You do have contributing docs, right?)

DO set it up automatically (or as much as possible. We have script that adds the hooks and sets the repo defaults we use). You don't want new developer to have to spend half a day setting up some git nonsense only to get it wrong. And once you change it, just rerun it

Pre-push might address some of the pain points but it doesn't address the biggest - it puts the developer in a "git hole" if they have something wrong in commit, because while pre-commit will just... cancel the commit till dev fixes it, with pre-push they now need to dig out knowledge on how to edit or undo existing commits

seba_dos1

6 days ago

> they now need to dig out knowledge on how to edit or undo existing commits

This knowledge is a crucial part of effective use of git every day, so if some junior dev has to learn it quick it's doing them a favor.

nine_k

6 days ago

A bit less enraged: pre-commit hooks should be pure functions. They must not mutate the files being committed. At best, they should generate a report. At worst, they could reject a commit (e.g. if it contains a private key file included by mistake).

normie3000

6 days ago

> e.g. if it contains a private key file included by mistake

Thanks - this is the first example of a pre-commit hook that I can see value in.

seba_dos1

6 days ago

Remember that such key will be copied into the repository on `git add` already and will stay there until garbage collected.

normie3000

18 hours ago

Thanks, good to keep in mind. Although presumably that means it's in my local repository. And it would have already been in my local filesystem anyway.

Ferret7446

6 days ago

In my experience pre-commit hooks are most often used to generate a starting commit message.

To put it more bluntly, pre-commit hooks are pre-commit hooks, exactly what it says on the tin. Not linting hooks or checking hooks or content filters. Depending on what exactly you want to do, they may or may not be the best tool for the job.

To put it even more bluntly, if you are trying to enforce proper formatting, pre-commit hooks are absolutely the wrong tool for the job, as hooks are trivially bypassable, and not shared when cloning a repo, by design.

p_wood

6 days ago

> In my experience pre-commit hooks are most often used to generate a starting commit message.

The `prepare-commit-msg` hook is a better place to do that as it gives the hook some context about the commit (is the user amending an existing commit etc.)

> To put it even more bluntly, if you are trying to enforce proper formatting, pre-commit hooks are absolutely the wrong tool for the job, as hooks are trivially bypassable, and not shared when cloning a repo, by design.

They aren't a substitute for server post-receive hooks but they do help avoid having pushes rejected by the server.

Dunedan

6 days ago

The pre-commit framework [1] abstracts all these issues away and offers a bunch of other advantages as well.

[1]: https://pre-commit.com/

jynelson

6 days ago

the pre-commit framework does not abstract away “hooks shouldn’t be run during a rebase”, nor “hooks should be fast and reliable”, nor “hooks should never change the index”.

Dunedan

6 days ago

Not sure how you got to that conclusion, as the pre-commit framework does indeed abstract them away. Maybe you're confusing it with something else?

> hooks shouldn’t be run during a rebase

The pre-commit framework doesn't run hooks during a rebase.

> hooks should be fast and reliable

The pre-commit framework does its best to make hooks faster (by running them in parallel if possible) and more reliable (by allowing the hook author to define an independent environment the hook runs in), however it's of course still important that the hooks themselves are properly implemented. Ultimately that's something the hook author has to solve, not the framework which runs them.

> hooks should never change the index

As I read it the author says hooks shouldn't change the working tree, but the index insteead and that's what the pre-commit framework does if hooks modify files.

Personally I prefer configuring hooks so they just print a diff of what they would've changed and abort the commit, instead of letting them modify files during a commit.

jynelson

6 days ago

> Ultimately that's something the hook author has to solve, not the framework which runs them.

correct. i'm saying that hook authors almost never do this right, and i'd rather they didn't even try and moved their checks to a pre-push hook instead.