QNX Self-Hosted Developer Desktop

276 pointsposted 4 days ago
by transpute
(devblog.qnx.com)

171 Comments

xvilka

4 days ago

I always liked their original UI - Photon[1][2]. Very lightweight and fast. Also a distinct and consistent style. I understand why they dropped it in favor of Qt and later Web technologies, but it's still a big loss.

[1] https://www.qnx.com/developers/docs/6.5.0SP1.update/com.qnx....

[2] https://www.mikecramer.com/qnx/momentics_nc_docs/photon/prog...

insin

3 days ago

I was expecting to see that, I ended up looking up some old LiteStep themes [1][2] for my fix

[1] https://www.wincustomize.com/explore/litestep/6/

[2] https://www.wincustomize.com/explore/litestep/292/

krylon

3 days ago

Oooooh, that's a blast from the past! I used to use LiteStep for about 6-9 months in 2000, before I started using GNU/Linux.

At the end, I had really beautiful (to my eyes, back then) and very functional desktop, but something went wrong when I made backup before installing SuSE Linux 7.0, so months of vigorous customizing were lost. :-(

But it was fun while it lasted. There were a number of alternative desktop shells in the Windows 95/98 era.

transpute

3 days ago

> I understand why they dropped [Photon] in favor of Qt and later Web technologies

The arrows of time branch and spiral, so it's possible that "later" could require some properties of "earlier".

If Photon could not be open-sourced, it could be licensed to a third party for custodian maintenance. If QNX is abandoning Photon forever, would Blackberry object to Photon being cloned for Linux or FreeBSD? That could preserve a future option for QNX to use it again, like XFCE.

Enthusiasts still use Blackberry keyboards on handheld devices in 2025, which sell out in minutes. In a parallel universe, Blackberry.com offers embedded SBC developers self-service purchase and global delivery of the legendary Blackberry keyboard, with Bluetooth for convenience or USB-c for security.

qwerty456127

3 days ago

Indeed. QNX is the coolest OS I ever seen and Photon felt the coolest desktop environment. Although I like XFCE in the Linux context (more than e.g. GNOME), I am sad to see it replaced Photon on QNX. Photon just looked and felt so lovely and came with a visual C++ builder making GUI apps development so nice.

NuclearPM

3 days ago

I ever saw.

I have ever seen.

prmoustache

3 days ago

Yes while it makes sense to reuse stuff that is already being built, my heart sank when I saw the screenshot while expecting seeing the photon microgui which to me was the nicest skeuomorphic one.

DaeDev

3 days ago

Funny thing is this got brought up to us in other circles. As a relatively new person to QNX photon seems to have a special place in people's hearts

hhh

3 days ago

I still see it used in manufacturing.

Quessy

4 days ago

Glad to see QNX still progressing. I worked there as an intern twice in Ottawa and they're pretty damn good. Great place to work imo. I met some of the kernel devs there. Had the priviledge of working with one and he taught and demoed some of the kernel features to me. They gave us interns a full summer course on kernels, C programming, OS and some hardware. Fun times.

JohnAtQNX

3 days ago

We still do that! In fact, the _QNX From The Board Up_ series on the developer blog is a small rip from that training content, adapted by Mr Brown. I hope we'll get all of it out there for everyone to benefit from in 2026 :)

wwweston

3 days ago

Sometimes I wish I could do this for mid career sabbatical.

JohnAtQNX

3 days ago

Well hey, we're hiring! qnx.com/careers!

ronsor

4 days ago

This is a major throwback to the QNX demo disk, which bundled a browser and desktop environment onto a single floppy disk!

sedatk

4 days ago

It was mind blowing at the time because Linux required at least 4-5 floppies to set up a text-only base system while QNX ran live from just a single 1.44MB.

fouc

3 days ago

Photon microGUI was included in that, and it blew my mind that you could literally kill and restart Photon without disturbing any of the GUI apps that were still running.

They also mailed a manual along with the demo disk, and I was amazed that QNX had built-in network bonding, amongst lots of other neat features. At the the time I was using Slackware & the linux kernel version was still 1.x, I don't think bonding came to linux until 2.x?

compsciphd

3 days ago

that's not really true. In 2001 I built a single disk linux installation (with a handful of popular nics supported) with X (tiny X with vesafb support) and rdesktop + vnc as a thin client on floppy.

I'd be honest and say that qnx demo disk had more usability overall than my disk, but one could easily have a usable text only linux bootable disk. Busybox and uclibc already existed back then.

https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~spotter/floppy.bin (won't be that useful today due to the ethernet drivers, but it was a 1.44mb floppy)

sedatk

a day ago

You’re missing my point. QNX live floppy came out in 1997. My experience with Slackware 3.x at the time was exactly like how I said it was. You needed two floppies just to boot up the kernel (they were called boot disk and root disk), so Linux setup could start.

I wasn’t claiming Linux couldn’t achieve this, merely stating why QNX was mind blowing: because it was way ahead of what was available, not what was possible.

Congrats on your live floppy project, I guess.

compsciphd

8 hours ago

yes, I was using Linux back then too :). Linux could do it in 1997 as well. I seem to recall (but we are talking 30 years ago so memory might be faulty) of Debian having a 1 disk install for its first release of 1.1 (and pre-releases of 0.x) if one was installing it over a network. by definition then this 1 disk was a fully working linux system on a single floppy.

my conceptual floppy was less to demonstrate it fitting on a floppy (that was just the carrot), the idea was to show how one could dynamically "rewrite" shared libs to only include the symbols one needed to run the apps and have them work.

argument being, static linking a single binary is smaller than dynamically linking it and including the shared library, but as one adds binaries, the duplicated code will eliminate that size advantage. But shared libraries (especially something like glibc) are large and apps dont always use vast sections of them), so what if one could iterate over all the dynamically linked apps one wanted to include and only include the sections of the shared libs that were needed.

So the project was demonstrating that. In practice, uclibc was smaller than the sliced up glibc (and at least for this project, worked just fine)

viraptor

3 days ago

When was that? You can still run from a single floppy https://github.com/Steve3184/floppinux and some form of that was available for ages.

sedatk

3 days ago

Linux was like that in 1995 (Slackware 3.1 or so). I believe QNX live was introduced in 1997.

bregma

3 days ago

QNX was introduced in 1980.

krylon

3 days ago

Yes, but the single-floppy live system with a desktop and a browser came much later. ;-)

sedatk

3 days ago

That’s why I said “QNX live”, not QNX.

fouc

3 days ago

He meant with X & web browser and so on. The QNX disk had gui + browser and a few other gui apps.

sedatk

3 days ago

No I meant the base system. A system with X would take at least 20 floppies or so with Slackware 3. The whole setup was 80 floppies in total.

I’m sure it’s better now, it wasn’t so when QNX had come out.

fouc

3 days ago

Oh huh, I forgot about that. I guess I downloaded X after the base system was installed.

OsrsNeedsf2P

4 days ago

Did I just wake up from a coma? QNX desktop? Wayland XFCE? What is going on here

harhargange

3 days ago

Seems like QNX was hiding in plain sight as a car os and a mission critical os for other devices.

WillAdams

3 days ago

I wish we could get it's competitor TronOS to make a similar desktop version --- the demo of it displaying multiple video windows on an 80186 was jaw-dropping --- a shame the U.S. Trade Commission quashed Japan's Ministry of Education's plans to roll it out nation-wide in schools from elementary up through graduate.

bigyabai

3 days ago

There are tons of proprietary RTOS/microkernel products on the market. It's not so much hiding as it is crowded-out.

jacquesm

3 days ago

And none of them can hold a candle to QnX. I've used a whole raft of them and QnX stands heads and shoulders above the competition. The consistency of the implementation is extremely impressive.

undefuser

3 days ago

I would like to hear more about your experiences. What makes QNX better than others?

jacquesm

3 days ago

Show me another OS that you can undress to the kernel, a console, a file system and a disk driver and then build it all up again without missing a beat.

The kernel processes are actual processes so each of the drivers is fully sandboxed, an error in one bit of code can not cause any other processes to be affected unless you explicitly declare that it should be so (shared memory, for instance) and of course you don't do that.

The reduction of scope alone is worth at least 30 IQ points.

Absolutely rock solid. I built some specialized network devices using QnX and those things ran for a decade+ after first installation. Not a single reboot.

mycall

2 days ago

Is this true? [0] No CVEs since 2011?

[0] https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-436/...

jacquesm

2 days ago

If there is one thing that is testimony to the power of microkernels then it is that one. And that 2011 one was avoidable, imo.

The reduction in scope is really gold, it makes it so much easier just to have a small defined interface per program. It is a bit like Erlang/OTP but with C as the core language, the IPC is so lightweight that it becomes the driver behind all library level isolation. So what in a macrokernel would be a massive monolith with all manner of stuff in the same execution ring turns into a miniscule kernel that just does IPC and scheduling and everything else is a user process, including all of the luxuries that you normally associate with user processes: dumps, debuggers, consoles.

JohnAtQNX

3 days ago

We're definitely a secret ingredient brand... hiding in products you use every day!

TacticalCoder

3 days ago

We're geeks: I know my car is running QNX for it's nav and audio (and certainly some other things) and, as a geek, I love it. So thank you so so very much! (it's a Porsche from 2013 btw)

IceWreck

3 days ago

Blackberry OS 10 was also running QNX under the hook afaik.

user

3 days ago

[deleted]

blumenkraft

3 days ago

And it was awesome! Very responsive.

IshKebab

3 days ago

I think the market is moving to "mixed criticality" so you can use Linux for your entertainment system but then also use a proper RTOS for the car stuff all in the same SoC.

lukeh

3 days ago

Yup, similar for audio stuff.

wewewedxfgdf

4 days ago

I feel like Charlie Brown running up to kick the football and having Lucy pull it away.

jdub

3 days ago

And,

    BARTLET
    By the way, the words you are looking for are, "Oh, good grief!"

donatj

4 days ago

Bring back Photon. It was dang near perfect.

wowczarek

4 days ago

Photon was what I was hoping for before I clicked the link. One of my favourite GUIs, closely tied with CDE.

Photon or not, I hated the period where they sort of moved to canned BSP deployment only, where in 6.5 I could just develop on a live system. This is nice.

Animats

4 days ago

Me too, although it's been a long time since Photon.

"This environment runs as a virtual machine, using QEMU on Ubuntu. To try the image, you'll need: Ubuntu 22.04 or 24.04." So it doesn't boot on bare metal?

Maybe they're trying to get away from needing Windows. The previous recommended development environment was cross-compilation from Windows.

The big news here is that they have a reasonable non-commercial license again.[1] The trouble is, QNX did that twice before, then took it away.[2] Big mistake. They lost their developer base. Support of open source tools on QNX stopped. As I once told a QNX sales rep, "Stop worrying about being pirated and worry about being ignored". They'll need to commit contractually to not yanking the non-commercial license to get much interest.

QNX should be licensed like Unreal Engine. If you ship enough products using it, it gets noticed and they contact you about payments, and if you're not shipping much product, Unreal doesn't care. This has created a big pool of Unreal developers, which, in turn, induces game studios to use Unreal. Unreal's threshold is US$1 million in sales.

Apparently they opened things up a bit last year, but nobody noticed.

Usefully, there is a QNX Board Support Package for the Raspberry PI, so you can target that. QNX would be good for IOT things on Raspberry PI machines, where you don't want the bloat and attack surface of a full Linux installation.

[1] https://qnx.software/en/developers/get-started/getting-start...

[2] https://www.theregister.com/2024/11/11/qnx_8_freeware/

JohnAtQNX

3 days ago

Bare metal is on the short-term roadmap!

mpweiher

a day ago

Cool!

I am a little confused about it both being a virtual image running on QEMU and requiring a very specific Ubuntu version as the base OS.

Shouldn't anything that can run QEMU work?

I used to do software development back on 386 with the OS on a floppy disk and really loved it. In fact, I ported my Objective-C compiler and runtime to QNX back then. Would love to play around with it on my Mac.

Thanks!

skrebbel

3 days ago

> QNX should be licensed like Unreal Engine.

That sounds quite a bit harder to enforce for an OS designed to run inside, often not internet-connected, devices.

justsomehnguy

3 days ago

If someone would decide to run QNX (or whatever) inside, often not internet-connected, devices then some IP enforcement wouldn't stop them anyway.

skrebbel

3 days ago

I mean it’s a realtime OS. It’s designed for that. So the pricing model has to work with that.

xvilka

4 days ago

> They lost their developer base. Support of open source tools on QNX stopped.

Right. These days it's better to invest into Redox OS[1] as a potential substitute for it (if work on real time capability). And with real time patches merged into Linux mainline[2] QNX doesn't stand much chance today too.

[1] https://doc.redox-os.org/book/microkernels.html

[2] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/09/real-time-linux-is-o...

dvfjsdhgfv

3 days ago

> And with real time patches merged into Linux mainline[2] QNX doesn't stand much chance today too.

Correct me if I'm wrong but these and other Linux patches were always about soft real time and Linux never had hard real time capability because of its architecture.

xvilka

3 days ago

You are absolutely right. For most applications it's good enough though, unless regulatorily enforced.

jonhohle

4 days ago

It’s really sad it wasn’t open sourced. In the early 2000s I was triple booting Windows 98, BeOS, and QNX. BeOS was my favorite, but QNX Neutrino was great as well.

yjftsjthsd-h

4 days ago

> One of my favourite GUIs, closely tied with CDE.

In case you're not aware: CDE is still around, open source, and runs on modern unix-likes.

xvilka

4 days ago

There is also a FWWM[1] "skin" that doesn't require long time abandoned C code - NsCDE[2]. It still requires X server (just like CDE itself) which becomes rarity these days. They need to port it to Wayland eventually.

[1] https://github.com/fvwmorg/fvwm3

[2] https://github.com/NsCDE/NsCDE

harhargange

3 days ago

As someone who still uses a QNX phone, the Blackberry Q10 as my second phone, I’m not just optimistic for the return of the cross-platform and secure os, I’m rooting for it. Especially for portable Linux handhelds. If Blackberry were to release a phone tomorrow, it would instantly be the most secure android phone. I still run some of my favourite android apps on my BB10os via the android translation layer.

Some comments mentioning QNX can run Swift code makes me think of it could also run iPhone apps.

While Blackberry exited the phone market, I’m surprised to know QNX is still the most popular os for cars. With 275 million devices running it atm.

f1shy

3 days ago

> QNX can run Swift code makes me think of it could also run iPhone apps.

Not at all. That is like saying because it can run C, it can run windows apps. To run iPhone apps you would need all the libraries and runtimes ported, including the whole GUI. Just not happening.

nicksbg

3 days ago

Tehnically, BB10 could run iOS apps at the beginning but, they disabled it before the release of PlayBook. Bad call.

gt0

3 days ago

Swift is probably less than 1% of the what it takes to run iPhone apps, you can get Swift for Windows too, but it is nowhere near able to run iPhone apps. The problem is all the libraries an iPhone app expects to be available on the host OS, all the multimedia stuff and so on, those libraries on iPhone are large and advanced, and not available for porting to any OS outside of Apple.

PaulRobinson

3 days ago

Swift != SwiftUI. You need the latter to run modern iOS apps written in Swift.

It's great that Apple are pushing Swift out there a bit, but honestly if they want the World to catch fire with it, they need to give away the Crown Jewels and get SwiftUI out there as well.

Meanwhile, it's great that QNX is supporting modern languages. I can imagine having a bit of fun with this developer desktop and seeing how modern tooling plays nicely with it.

lillecarl

3 days ago

.NET is doing pretty good without all cross platform UI.

jecel

3 days ago

QNX was my operating system from 1985 to 1988. I also studied it in 2000 for a project that ended up getting cancelled.

Initially the actual implementation didn't match the conceptual framework, but by version 1.2 they had really cleaned things up.

rbanffy

3 days ago

I learned C on QNX (back then, it booted from a floppy on a PC/XT). It was a nice little Unix-like OS, with all the things you'd expect from a nice little Unix-like OS, plus a reputation of being rock-solid like nothing else.

I think it's a real shame Blackberry didn't manage to etch a third (or fourth - I also loved Palm's WebOS) niche for their QNX-based phones. Blackbberry 10 was an amazing mobile OS.

lproven

a day ago

> Blackbberry 10 was an amazing mobile OS.

100% this. I had a Passport and it was one of the single lovelist phones I've ever had.

Compared to my Nokia 7710, the last device with the original Psion UI... that was an elegant touchscreen, plus physical buttons, and a replaceable battery, but that was about it.

Compared to my Nokia E90 Communicator...

The keyboard was even better; it charged off a standard MicroUSB port, and had a standard headphone jack; it had way more apps, because it ran Android ones pretty well.

Compared to any Android phone... Vastly unrecognisably better messaging app, with one inbox for all messages and notifications. Square screen so no fighting portrait vs. landscape. Physical keyboard for much more accurate typing -- and scrolling. Google-free.

rbanffy

19 hours ago

> I had a Passport and it was one of the single lovelist phones I've ever had.

I would still love one, but I don't think I could move it to my own Blackberry account at this point in time.

noAnswer

3 days ago

"Hey! I’ve seen this one, this is a classic!" <Marty McFly pointing at screen>

QNX will shift focus in a year or two.

supermatt

3 days ago

If you want to fall for the QNX bait and switch a 3rd time, more fool you.

samiv

3 days ago

Can you elaborate on this?

roryirvine

3 days ago

They've moved back and forth between being partially source-available and fully closed source at least twice. It's a similar story with usage licenses, with hobbyist and non-commercial access variously being granted and then pulled away multiple times.

On at least one occasion, the license was changed overnight leaving a large enthusiast community in the lurch.

Given the history, there's every reason to suspect that there'll be yet more rug-pulls in the future.

noAnswer

3 days ago

They also had a desktop version you could install at home before.

qznc

3 days ago

They don't promise anything "Open Source" here.

supermatt

3 days ago

The bait and switch was around the “free” license for non-commercial use. They got lots of people using it and porting software to it, and then they revoked that free license.

Then they did exactly the same thing again a few years later.

And now, for the 3rd time, they are offering a “free” non-commercial license.

soapdog

3 days ago

I wish someone would reimplement/clone Photon Micro GUI it was amazing.

hulitu

2 days ago

This is so 90's. Now, if something isn't using 500 MB of RAM and 50 libraries, it is not worth using it.

wkat4242

3 days ago

Wow so they have a desktop version again after many many years. That's huge.

LargoLasskhyfv

4 days ago

We'll see if it reaches bare metal some time, instead of relying on QEMU(on Ubuntu).

In theory I'd be tempted to try, in practice not, because of all the back and forth between changing owners in the past, and resulting policies regarding availability.

I'm also very well served by some 'gaming distro', where nothing ever stutters or lags, on almost obsolete hardware, mostly clocked down to 800Mhz, with uptimes of up to 150 days. More isn't really useful anyways, because of updates.

But hey, Wayland! On QNX! With XFCE on top of that! Who would have thought?

What about photonic Plasma instead of some Generic ToolKit?

yjftsjthsd-h

4 days ago

> We'll see if it reaches bare metal some time, instead of relying on QEMU(on Ubuntu).

They do list "A native Desktop image on Raspberry Pi" under What's Next, so hopefully soon:)

> In theory I'd be tempted to try, in practice not, because of all the back and forth between changing owners in the past, and resulting policies regarding availability.

Yeah, that gives me pause too. There was some noise earlier about open sourcing it; I do wish they'd actually do that.

bregma

3 days ago

> We'll see if it reaches bare metal some time, instead of relying on QEMU

You can already get a free license for QNX and grab a BSP (board support package) to create a bare metal image. You have been able to for quite a while. People who understand how a computer works, what a device driver is and how and when to use one, are not the target for this demo. It's targeted at the people who think the user interface is the software and the desktop GUI is the operating system.

LargoLasskhyfv

3 days ago

Yah, I know that. But the licensing swings aside, I've just thought 'are you on crack?' because of the Eclipse on Windows cross- compiling thing, which they've done when I last looked.

And stopped.

wmf

4 days ago

QNX is running on bare metal in a lot of cars.

cbsks

4 days ago

It’s also running virtualized in a lot of cars! Although I’ve seen more and more US car companies switching from QNX to Linux. Chinese car companies I’ve worked with all use Linux instead of QNX, so perhaps that is the future.

m132

3 days ago

Out of curiosity, do you mean Linux on bare metal, or Linux on top of QVM?

The latter is actually a common setup, used by Mercedes-Benz and Hangsheng if I'm not mistaken.

cbsks

3 days ago

Linux on top of a hypervisor. There are several companies providing hypervisors, including the one I work at, so my experience is biased.

xvilka

3 days ago

Linux now supports real time too, even mainline. And there are open source RTOSes for smaller chips and critical applications like FreeRTOS.

jacquesm

3 days ago

QnX is expensive for commercial use, that's most likely the driver for this.

JohnAtQNX

3 days ago

Bare metal is on the short-term roadmap!

fud101

4 days ago

which 'gaming' distro is that out of curiousity?

LargoLasskhyfv

3 days ago

CachyOS.

Running on Core i5 7500t and Core i7 7700t with integrated intel HD630 graphics on Lenovo M910q tiny with 32GB RAM. Mostly clocked down to 800Mhz. Chosen path: systemd-boot, Btrfs, ZRAM, Plasma/KDE.

Edit:

I'm also not gaming btw, just heavy browser use, and some LibreOffice. So if you expect to get insane FPS in 4K(on old systems!), that probably wouldn't work. What does work is having (a heavily customized) FF working with uBo with usually 4 FF-windows open, and each of them at least several dozen tabs, almost always one of them playing some music from YT without a hitch. Doing other stuff on other virtual desktops (I run 3 by 3). 4K videos with mpv no problem. With VLC neither, but I deinstalled that because I don't need so much UI and features. Matter of taste. Shrug. Remoting by whichever means. Even experimenting with small local LLMs like Deepseek R1:8B via Ollama. Though that brings the systems to their limits, spinning up the fan hard, and going allcore 3.1GHz :-)

Feels like BBSsing in the days of analog modems :-)

(Because 'thinking' for minutes, and answers trickle in like text at 300 to 1200 baud, or so)

But still, while doing so, music from YT doodling on, even whith EasyEffects, no scratches, klicks, distortions, whatever.

System stays responsive, no matter if I'm shuffling files in Dolphin/Krusader, torturing LibreOffice Calc, reading some website, PDF, downloading something, be it via browser/Kget or Ktorrent, remote desking, conferencing...

It's all just flowing very smoothly.

Bliss.

Because it just works.

(On my hardware, which may change if you have to use other drivers for AMD, Nvidia, or later intel graphics. Or your firmware/UEFI is buggy/broken.)

Editoftheedit:

Oh! Did I mention suspend to RAM and wakeup is working perfectly? Every single time! The same goes for Wake on LAN, or netbooting.

(cackling madly)

user

3 days ago

[deleted]

inamberclad

4 days ago

Wow, this could be quite useful for poking at the head unit in my car. It's also running QNX.

user

3 days ago

[deleted]

harhargange

3 days ago

I hope you don’t end up diagnosing issues on the highway.

written-beyond

3 days ago

PREEMPT_RT, Toyota's IVI shell for flutter and the AGL efforts has made qnx compete again

bregma

3 days ago

It's not a hard-running race. PREEMPT_RT is soft realtime and if you rely on it for your brakes you're going to crash. AGL has not yet produced any kind of usable system that can be certified for functional safety under ISO 26262 or IEC 61508. Just a core kernel with no drivers.

We run into a lot of OEMs who switch to Linux because of AGL and come crawling back to QNX many expensive months later to start over with a viable solution so they can deliver.

written-beyond

3 days ago

Toyota has adopted the flutter IVI shell in their newer cars. You could argue that it can also run on QNX but the real push behind it has been the growing interest and effort behind AGL.

QNX hypervisor architecture allows companies to adopt AGL gradually bringing in the productivity benefits of stuff like flutter and Linux. QT is hell, their entire moat has been the automotive industry/highly embedded devices and seeing Flutter chip away at even a small portion of it gives a lot of hope for a better competitive landscape for more productive and performant embedded guis.

cheema33

3 days ago

Supposedly QNX is used by many car infotainment systems. A hard realtime OS for infotainment? What is the purpose? There are costs associated with using something like QNX. I can understand if you needed to control drivetain with it, but for infotainment why not just use Linux?

blumenkraft

3 days ago

Infotainment controls many of car systems. For example, infotainment controls car drive mode, which instantly affects gearbox. Probably requires predictable time delays for certification.

bluGill

3 days ago

No gpl, and more importantly the gpl 'fans' who can't write a line of code but will scream about gpl violations if they can find anything - even if false.

it run qt and does everything else so it is often an easy choice.

JohnAtQNX

3 days ago

In some cases it could also be an Android guest running as a VM on the QNX Hypervisor, where there are multiple guests (QNX, Android, Linux) making use of the same HW.

tyingq

3 days ago

fast boot, low latency for buttons/controls.

kevin_thibedeau

3 days ago

I have a Ford Sync 2.5 system which is a cost reduced hardware downgrade from QNX based Sync 3. I'm sure the OS is doing its best while hobbled by a poor management decision but it has lots of bugs that crop up from what appears to be severe RAM shortage coupled with some gradual memory leaks. I have to reboot it regularly when traveling with Android auto. It's always a crap shoot if my phone will connect.

gigatexal

3 days ago

Why would I run QNX on the desktop instead of say Linux or FreeBSD?

JohnAtQNX

3 days ago

QNX is not a GPOS, so you wouldn't. I mean you _could_, but the real benefit here is hidden within: with the toolchain now included in this image, folks working on QNX projects can now build them right on target. No more messy cross-compilation.

zerr

3 days ago

Is GTK their go to GUI toolkit nowadays? (mentioned in the examples)

JohnAtQNX

3 days ago

GTK support for sure, but also Qt, Godot, and others. Commercially, also support for Unity & Unreal.

eeeficus

3 days ago

A bit dissapointed by this. You have to create an account, get a license, deploy it and then you get a fucking download manager just for linux and windows to download who knows what that should run on qemu. Why not just give a link to a qemu image with a script that runs it?

JohnAtQNX

3 days ago

We plan to host prebuilts in the new year to make it easier to download/run.

m132

3 days ago

Yes!

In an era where most development-oriented software is downloaded with wget/git clone/[package manager] install, this whole process feels like a slap in the face. And don't get me wrong, this is still a huge upgrade over the InstallShield Wizard of the previous versions, which rarely worked at all, and if it did, it would butcher your /etc/profile, but its still an absolute abomination, bundling an entire JRE for the only rightful architecture x86-64 just to download and unzip a few files.

encom

3 days ago

And the official support options are Discord and Reddit. Sad.

tombert

4 days ago

I've only ever used QNX in the form of Blackberry products (mostly the Playbook), so I am afraid I don't what the advantages of it would be compared to Linux or something.

I know it's a microkernel which is inherently cool to me, but I don't know what else it buys you.

Can anyone here give me a high-level overview of why QNX is cool?

cyberax

4 days ago

QNX is hard realtime. At one point, its kernel had O(1) guarantees for message passing and process switching. It could have been rewritten without any loops. I'm not sure if that's still true.

It's also really compact. This used to be a great selling point for underpowered car infotainment systems. Some cars had around 1Mb of RAM for their infotainment, yet they were able to run fairly complex media systems.

QNX is also used for non-UI components, just as a good realtime OS.

jacquesm

3 days ago

I think it is mostly used for non-UI stuff. I could be wrong but outside of car infotainment I've never seen it used for UI stuff. Mostly it just sits headless quietly running some branch of industry that we all depend on. The joke used to be that if QnX had a y2k bug that had been missed civilization would end and never mind windows because you won't have any water, food, energy or transportation anymore.

cyberax

3 days ago

Yep. QNX was better than anything else around 2000. VxWorks was technically slimmer and more reliable, but QNX had a real mostly-POSIX-compatible environment. You could develop/debug the code on QNX itself and deploy it on the devices.

They were also early adopters of Eclipse, which was the "default IDE" before the advent of VS Code.

jacquesm

3 days ago

I've used VxWorks as well, yes, it was slimmer (a lot slimmer, actually), but I would disagree that it was more reliable. QnX supported a ton of hardware out of the box and if there ever was unreliability as far as I've seen it it was always comms layer related, never the core OS or any other bits that you could put next to VxWorks and compare on a functional level. You just required a much bigger SBC to run it, and that's why we used VxWorks in the first place. But I would have been much happier with QnX. I'm imagining the modern day equivalent of QnX running on a Raspberry Pi Pico or one of the larger Arduino's or a Teensy. That would be an absolute game-changer.

jacquesm

3 days ago

Hard real time (so latency guarantees), microkernel (and they actually mean it, so your device drivers can't hose your system), standardized networked IPC including network transparency for all services, ISRs at the application level.

m132

3 days ago

>IPC including network transparency

Sadly not anymore, Qnet was removed in 8.0

jacquesm

3 days ago

Oh! I only worked with it commercially prior to that so I never got the memo. What an insanely stupid move. That was one of their USPs.

In general QnX was commercially mismanaged and technically excellent. I'm imagining a world where they clued in early on that an open source real time OS would have run circles around the rest of the offerings and they'd have cleaned up on commercial licensing. Since the 80's they've steadily lost mind and marketshare though I suspect they'll always be around in some form.

JohnAtQNX

3 days ago

There's been talk about this on Reddit too, where our chief architect of QNX 8 broke down the decision. He mentioned it was ultimately a tough decision, but that in the end the cons outweighed the pros.

m132

3 days ago

Hey, could you please post a link to the thread you're referring to? I'm guessing it had to do with the io-pkt to io-sock transition, but I couldn't find any information about that.

I've also noticed that all of the message passing system calls still accept the node ID. Are there plans to open up this interface to allow for implementation of custom network managers, maybe? I'd be very interested in exploring that.

jacquesm

3 days ago

Such decisions should always involve the customers. A chief architect that knocks one of the foundation stones out from under a building isn't doing the bureau they work for any favors.

int0x29

3 days ago

Since when does xfce run on Wayland?

ngcc_hk

4 days ago

Totally miss this.

bflesch

4 days ago

Marketing looks nice, but why do they make it so hard to build trust? If it's a software focused on developers it's really important to establish trust.

The page on https://devblog.qnx.com/about/ does not show what kind of company it is, who is behind it, and where they are located. Should I expect backdoors? Is it an elaborate front by north korea? Who will be able to remotely execute code on this operating system?

It's nearly 2026 and fake job applications by nation-state threat actors are common. If a new open source project with shiny marketing pops up it would really help if there is some proof that the org behind it consists of humans living in democratic countries.

Edit: The about page links to https://qnx.software/en which only shows a black screen for me.

Intralexical

4 days ago

QNX is the backbone of the auto industry, and powers over 200 million cars on the road. For the target demographic, I don't imagine they need to "build trust" any more than IBM or Microsoft need to build trust.

That said, like IBM and Microsoft, they've also been on and off over the years about whether tinkerers, desktop, and other uses are welcome. So they probably could benefit from showing that this time they're opening the ecosystem for the long haul.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/investing/markets/stocks/BB-...

mkj

4 days ago

People in the industry would know that QNX has been around since the 90s (or 80s?) as a very solid embedded GUI platform. They're a company that doesn't need to prove their credentials.

I'd agree using qnx.software rather than qnx.com is kinda dumb though.

ofrzeta

3 days ago

Sure, it's been around 40 years, but it's not like old companies haven't changed owners many times. So, for instance, QNX is now part of Harman which is part of Samsung.

ykl

3 days ago

I thought that QNX was acquired by / is still developed by BlackBerry?

ofrzeta

3 days ago

Seems you are right. See how complicated it is? :)

bflesch

2 days ago

Indeed. And it has happened before that well-known brands change owners and suddenly push new products with certain risks attached for the user. That's all I wanted to point out, and for QNX it would be a very easy way to build trust by having this kind of information (or imprint) on their website.

lmz

3 days ago

So it's an elaborate front by South Korea instead.

bflesch

2 days ago

You're joking but the north korea intrusions are factually established and an ongoing security risk.

wmf

4 days ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QNX

bflesch

4 days ago

Their main website is a black page. No idea if someone bought the brand or if it is the original people behind this 40 year old project. Both the wikipedia and the website only mention "canada" in passing but no information is given on company and people behind it. Nothing that can be verified.

JohnAtQNX

3 days ago

Hiya! The bulk of my colleagues and I are in Ottawa and Waterloo Ontario Canada. We're a division of BlackBerry Limited, and have been for about 15 years. QNX itself is about 45+ years old, having come out of an OS course at the University of Waterloo. I work with a lot of people who are celebrating 25-35 year anniversaries -- very much still a lot of the same engineering and product talent here through all of the transitions.

shakna

4 days ago

The page certainly isn't black for me. Its QNX's usual marketing fluff about being embedded in a wide range of cars.

ronsor

4 days ago

It's developed by BlackBerry, is it not? Has been for years now.

bflesch

4 days ago

The footer of the website just says "Join the Discord Community - Reddit: r/qnx - Instagram: qnx_devrel - Powered by Ghost". There is no imprint and the "about" link also does not give any info.

transpute

4 days ago

From the Wikipedia page

  Developer:  BlackBerry (formerly QNX Software Systems)
  
  On April 9, 2010, Research In Motion (later renamed to BlackBerry Limited) announced they would acquire QNX Software Systems from Harman International Industries.

harhargange

3 days ago

And the bb10os was based on this. I still use it and it’s the ultimate phone that supports few android apps still.

f1shy

3 days ago

It was bought by RIM (Research in Motion) which were the developers of BlackBerry.

Lammy

3 days ago

> Should I expect backdoors? Is it an elaborate front by north korea? Who will be able to remotely execute code on this operating system?

Stop sowing FUD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty,_and_doubt

bflesch

3 days ago

You should "trust, but verify" and not shoot the messenger. If raising valid concerns that were not addressed by the linked website is FUD for you, so be it. Sourceforge was also a major brand back in the day and nowadays it raises an anti virus alarm if a user visits that website.

Joel_LeBlanc

14 hours ago

I totally get where you're coming from—due diligence can be a daunting task, especially with the amount of misinformation out there. It's crucial to dig deep and verify claims to make informed decisions. I've found that using tools like DREA (Digital Real Estate Analyzer) has really streamlined my process for evaluating digital assets. Just remember, trust your instincts, but always back them up with solid research!

Lammy

3 days ago

> If raising valid concerns that were not addressed by the linked website is FUD for you, so be it.

Yes, it is. It's specifically called concern trolling: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/concern_troll

In this case it's because the mass-market operating systems with which QNX could compete already do the things you're “concerned” about. QNX could only be an improvement in that regard.

bflesch

2 days ago

I'll bite. There's linux distros popping up left and right and even established distros and major OSS projects have significant security risks attached due to core developers residing in non-free countries. These countries wage hybrid warfare against democratic countries, and it is naive to think that software projects are out of scope. When push comes to shove this access will be utilized.

As someone who has not worked in automotive QNX is a totally unknown brand and based on the linked website I had trouble finding out what it actually is. Also the wikipedia source just stated RIM and might not have been updated at all. Also RIM/Blackberry is not a brand that is positively recognized.

With something like Ubuntu it was an easy, verifiable story who is behind it and what they are doing. That's what the linkd QNX page was missing, and I pointed it out because I actually tried to do the due diligence and see what company is behind it and where it is located.