a malicious person could put your email address on there with the intention of getting you blocked

> but I realized that email is inherently insecure

I'm curious why you think this?

Take two parties that run their own email servers. One sends an email to the other. Their server opens a TLS connection to the other server and sends the email.

This is E2EE, no?

Given this is possible, is email truly *inherently* insecure? Or is the problem the centralization/sharing of email in free hosts?

> but I realized that email is inherently insecure

I've always seen Proton benefits as a moot point because it's not E2E to the other side. You can encrypt all you want but as soon as you actually communicate with anyone (this is the email after all) you are now give all your messages to a third party often times without any encryption at all.

> any cloud storage can be E2EE if you encrypt the files yourself before uploading (which you should)

Except the metadata I guess.

What were those posts about on social media? Care to share?

So the title is incorrect? They haven't left Switzerland yet?

The future of data sharing with the US may be on shaky ground given the current US administration and its actions.

They are a non-profit, and they could actually get more subsidies if they moved their headquarters to the EU.

> they prefer to IPO on another market than Swiss

You can publicly list in exchanges despite not being domiciled in the exchange's host country.

For example, Chinese and EU domiciled companies IPOing on the London Stock Exchange (LSE) due to a mix of easier access to liquidity and simplified rules and regulations.

I'm not European, but it's probably a mix of intelligence services advocating for it and government regulation as a solution to everything. If you believe that every problem can be solved by a regulator, then the logical endgame is the regulator needing a window into every aspect of your life so they can make sure you're not violating regulations.

The Patriot Act isn't on equal footing as these Chat Control-esque laws we're seeing. The US government spies on people, sure, but they're not mandating encryption backdoors or trying to outlaw VPNs.

Certain countries like Greece use surveillance against political opponents. In this case, the PM himself oversaw the spying of the current opposition leader, journalists and others.

There's also lobbying from "security" companies who are pressuring governments to purchase and install their systems, but they require realtime spying of everyone.

My headcannon is that it’s a money thing, and that there must be intense lobbying by the internet surveillance manufacturers (like Thales).

The State must grow, and this is the lowest hanging fruit. What are they gonna do, try to fix the economy? Housing? Youth prospects?

It’s a win-win for the politicians and the pensioners that vote them, that believe any nonsense about children safety.

It’s “all of a sudden” because E2EE messaging has become mainstream, and the telephone and email tapping abilities of old aren’t effective anymore.

I feel like over time governments and government agencies naturally attract and retain people inclined towards overreach, especially if they live in a bubble where there are always good and valid reasons for said overreach. you need a branch of the government explicitly combatting this tendency for it not to happen.

Its not just Europe. america is too, it just seems less egregious because the American people are used to seeing the government contract out constitutional violations to private corporations which have incestuous links to the government.

With recent AI advancements, an orwellian hell is all but inevitable. If you (by which i mean the powers that be not you specifically) don't build it then some competing faction will and they'll be in control of it. Its the classic prisoner dilemma.

most of the laws voted against terrorism in europe were aimed at removing freedom and track people while they freely imported millions of people from the countries that they deemed dangerous without any background check, without even helping those people from totally different cultures to integrate within european society

> Why are all European countries interested in surveillance all of a sudden in the last 3-4 years?

That has been going on for decades, actually. What has changed is that people are looking at it.

I think it might be opportunism. Many western societies have struggled with post covid reintegration and the amount of social media kids are involved with. Not to mention rising nationalism and far right orgs. So it makes a solid catalyst to launch these mass surveillance programs in the name of protecting children and natives.

Governments are never perfect. They are always in a precarious position where they can turn quite harsh quite quickly. I can't speak to each EU nations politics but things have been turning towards the right for a while and they are finally in positions where they can make these demands and get them passed.

European States are vassals of America. They probably just reminded us poor helvetes that our neutrality and sovereignty was on paper only, and that if we opposed them, we would end up like Venezuela or Lybia.

I reckon gang stalking and politicians receiving death threats got something to do with it.

> Why are all European countries interested in surveillance all of a sudden in the last 3-4 years?

Something I realized recently is how low the approval ratings of European leaders are:

- Macron and Starmer are about 18%

- Mertz is 25% (only 6 months in)

- Von Leyen is 23%

This is ridiculous.

We often perceive Trump as highly unpopular but he is cruising between 40 and 50%, that's double.

So those leaders, according to the numbers, are becoming illegitimate or the system is broken. So we are just waiting for a spark to put the house on fire.

Mass surveillance within your territory is really a weapon against your own population, it is not to catch spies (they are trained to evade them).

>Why are all European countries interested in surveillance all of a sudden in the last 3-4 years?

Because they look at what happened US, at the rise of popularity of fascism throughout the world (which is mostly perpetuated by key media players under the mask of being "anti-woke"), and basically decide that the people can no longer be trusted.

And they are fully correct.

Ive said this before on here, but the whole idea of privacy from surveillance is not applicable anymore in todays world.

The standard line of arguing is that people should be able to speak the truth free from government knowing about it and trying to silence them. The problem with this

* Most of the "truth" that these people refer to has been literally false propaganda, or ability to say slurs on social media.

* Despite that fact, not a single public media person speaking these lies has been silenced in any way by the government, despite things like patriot act existing in US or equivalent things in EU. The only time people have been silenced in places like UK is when posting extremely out of pocket stuff.

Furthermore people also say that you don't want to give the government the power to do this now because a government that you may not like will want to do this. Well, to no one surprise, the people with this libertarian mindset (and the so called "centrists") overwhelmingly vote right wing, and consequently, right wing runs on a platform of freedom, but when those people get in power, they not only actively tries to silence actual truth and free speech, but also they just don't give a fuck about the law and do what they want anyways.

So as unfortunate as it is, its a much better outcome for the current state of administration in EU to take a more invasive role in policing the populace, because economic growth and stability over long term is worth way more than some idealistic approach based on above. Historically this has shown to be true over and over again, while the latter has shown to result in economic decline. So its wortwhile to sacrifice some personal rights in return for a better future - we already do this to a large extent so this is nothing new.

In terms of applicability to the regular person, please understand that the privacy ship for you has already long sailed. You already can be tracked and analyzed in extreme detail, by really any person or company that is willing to buy advertising data and do correlation. There are companies that literally do this and contract out to the government. Also, you aren't that important enough to care about.

wake up, EU is turning into the dictatorship

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