How did IRC ping timeouts end up in a lawsuit?

111 pointsposted a day ago
by dvaun

13 Comments

chrisfosterelli

3 hours ago

A whole other part of this argument that could be made is about the inherent assumption that a ping timeout is caused by an event that only affects one machine.

kstrauser

3 hours ago

For sure. Having lived on IRC for a while many years ago, I assure any bystanders that this is assuredly not always the case.

oooyay

an hour ago

Ergo isn't a federated server, it's meant to scale vertically

KK7NIL

12 minutes ago

The internet is a "federated" network though, so their point still applies.

RankingMember

3 hours ago

Glad to see a case that could've very easily gone sideways due to its technical nature come out right.

bombcar

2 hours ago

The facts were never argued, the other party failed to follow procedure.

rwmj

2 hours ago

After "being warned of the consequences on multiple occasions the Schestowitzes never provided any witness statements", so that's hardly Matthew's fault.

wahern

42 minutes ago

I wonder why they refused to do it. From the judgment it seems cost may have been a factor. But their allegations were pretty thin and based on their own assertions and personally collected evidence. Couldn't they have just reiterated what they put in their pleadings (perhaps with a little help), without paying a lawyer to laboriously interview them and prepare it properly? Maybe they finally realized they'd have to take the stand (figuratively if not actually) to restate their allegations in the first person rather than passively through pleadings, subjecting themselves to cross-examination, and finally realized how deep a hole they had already dug beyond the monetary.

That is the whole point of witness testimony, I guess. Outside small claims or administrative courts, you can't just dump a bunch of written allegations and evidentiary documents and ask the court to decide everything based on the submissions. All facts and substantive inferences, except those which are self-evident, generally have to be entered into evidence by way of oral witness testimony, and one reason is precisely because putting someone in the hot seat causes people to reconsider the gravity of what they're alleging. It's sort of like signatures on contracts; it's not about preventing fraud, for which the ritual is useless, but primarily about establishing that the person took the commitment seriously. (When signatures are disputed, typically they're proven authentic not by matching signatures but by bringing in witnesses to identify the person they saw making the signature.)

buckle8017

3 hours ago

Ironically I think the technical analysis argues that he could infact be guilty.

He goes from, 11 seconds is a big gap to, anything within 90 seconds could be the same person.

The real question is, how often did the timeouts coincide.

kstrauser

3 hours ago

It does not. He said that if we're using approximately similar times to establish identity, then by using that logic, it could also establish that Schestowitz was that alleged sockpuppet account. (Transitively, does that mean Garrett and Schestowitz are the same person? Have we ever seen them in a room together? Hmm.)

But honestly, anyone who ever spent any amount of time on IRC is used to seeing 50 people drop from a channel at once. That was usually due to netsplits, which isn't the case here since there was only one IRC server involved, but that wasn't the only cause. "Uh-oh, the IRC server got too laggy and couldn't service all requests within the configured timeout. Time to disconnect everyone!"

nextaccountic

3 hours ago

Your assumption is that a 11 second delta is a somewhat better evidence than a 90 seconds delta, but the provided article successfully defended this isn't the case IMO. It depends on the last activity of the user

The article also shows that there's a 40 second delta between the harassing account and the harassed person himself, further semonstrating this doesn't mean anything and can happen purely by chance

RIMR

3 hours ago

I do agree, though, that a pattern of synchronized account activity actually suggests something more than a single example.