> Before this administration recruiting was extremely difficult and candidate quality was low. I've heard that it's nearly impossible now and in the last 18 months they've only been able to hire a single person. Federal jobs used to be considered stable, with good benefits, but low pay. Now they're unstable, the current administration is actively working to make benefits worse, and the pay is still really low.

Also, many people took pride in the service they provided to their country (or to the people, or as part of a team that did good, however they thought of it).

I don't have high hopes for this new thing.

After recent treatment of federal employees, and other things going on in the US this year, including how USDS as DOGE was weaponized against the US... I'd expect this new thing to only be able to recruit from these categories:

1. Outright bad people, with anti-US, looter/saboteur intent, as we've seen from other facets recently. They will focus on their own bad-person individual interests.

2. People who aren't bad, but who are so cognitively impaired, that they still don't realize that they're probably going to get screwed personally and/or directed to be the baddies. They will be bad at everything they do.

3. People who are intelligent and pro-US, and have no illusions about what they're signing up for, but who desperately need the income, after being screwed earlier this year. They won't be inspired to execute well on whatever anti-US directives they're given.

I believe the new grad DOGE employees were GS-15s. So yes, it seems likely that they plan to hire at GS-14 or GS-15.

At least in 2010, it was common for new grads to get GS-14/GS-15 pay for in-demand tech skills. It's a bit odd that early career folks would start out at the max of the pay band, but it is what it is. These were for roles which required a clearance.

I'd wager that the "approximate" in that sentence is going to be doing a lot of heavy lifting.

(1) Are you saying it's bad if they're upping engineer pay to be more competitive, or you're just skeptical that they will?

(2) I'd actually like the American government to pay better wages for its engineers, and optimize for hiring the best, rather than those desiring a stable, low-paying bureaucracy — I don't think that attracts the best people.

(3) On talent and recruiting: This is being done by the National Design Studio, it says at the bottom. That's led by a cofounder of Airbnb - I know one person who works at the National Design Studio and he's a phenomenal engineer. The administration also has the involvement of David Sacks, who founded Craft Ventures and is pretty well-known in SV. I think this is probably the most tech-competent the government will have been in a long time. I'm not crediting Trump at all for that, to be clear - just pointing out that tech talent in government seems to be getting better, not worse.

Serious question: what makes you think team “hold my beer” won’t find a way around past norms, or just ignore them? Not that they actually care enough to do it, but I don’t think they wouldn’t/couldn’t if they did care.

Not to mention “…recruiting an elite corps of engineers to build…” while also “…participants will receive technical training…”

So “elite” engineers need technical training?

What am I missing here.

I have extensive experience with this kind of government nonsense, but usually it is kind of in the background, blather no one really takes serious because it’s just blowing smoke. But this seems so credibility destroying through its ridiculous contradictions and bombast.

> Benefits include health insurance, retirement plans, paid time off, and eligibility for performance-based awards

Paid time off???

Health insurance???

Retirement plans????

OMG this is incredible! What an offer!

/s

If I was late-career with a good solid financial foundation im place and just looking to work to cover living expenses the Federal Gov as fucked as it may be doesn't seem like a bad gig. Since the bar is so incredibly fucking low you just mail it in and collect the money and when youre furloughed you play golf or do extra hobbies. The ball just needs to keep moving, it doesn't actually need to move quickly. Heck it doesn't even need to necessarily move forward.

And USDS, which was specifically 2 year terms just like this, for actual experienced engineers at the top of GS15 pay. They destroyed USDS to pretend to reinvent it but with new worse humans.

My actual first thought was "Is this a hoax?" precisely because the website did not identify itself as a US government website in the usual way for executive branch sites.

I know it's par for the course these days, but that's a lot of Js and CSS for a single page app with some text, a few images, and a list of collapsible info sections (whose animations aren't very smooth).

Do those standards mandate a correctly rendered US flag?

Click on America by design initiative

"What's the biggest brand in the world? If you said Trump, you're not wrong. But what's the foundation of that brand? One that's more globally recognized than practically anything else.

...

This is President Trump going bigger than President Nixon"

Jesus christ, man

Why is all of ND Studio's work so severely AI/'tech/crypto bro'/SF-billboard-vibe coded?

Yeah, given the primary benefit of government jobs like this is usually the stability, pension etc when you’re offering absolutely none of that you really need to look down the back of the couch for some benefits.

> "you'll get lots of exposure!"

"Backed by the White House"

I don't think this is the kind of exposure most people are going to want, nor will they want this on their resume.

>Given the lack of mention of any benefits prior to this, it sure sounds like "you'll get lots of exposure!"

Well, they are also "partnering" with some private sector companies. I guess the idea is that candidates will put in their 2 years, then take their contact list and join federal sales arm of one of the private companies.

"Big Balls" and his ilk got a lot of attention.

Interesting to see AMD on there and not Intel.

Every one of them will also be tripping over each other to try and push their software as the solution to any and every problem. I'd wager a hefty sum that at the end of the day every US government department is going to have it's own unique software stack that will be ill-suited for their needs, incompatible with what adjacent departments use, and offer no robustness in the event of an emergency.

It's the perfect metaphor for a Trump-era group whose aim is to jam poorly-thought-out AI in to random bits of the government.

Like this administration cares about little things like how many states there are. L'état, c'est Trump.

Ever since USDS got renamed as DOGE, they've had trouble recruiting people. I suspect this move is maybe an effort to shed DOGE's negative image.

Yeah my first thought was that this already existed, was doing great work, and got canned by DOGE in favor of what appears to be a MUCH MUCH more expensive version of it here.

That was my first thought too. But they can say that this one was created by their administration. And is more AI.

I'd love to hear from people who had experience with USDS before this administration. The chatter I see online is overwhelmingly positive. OTOH, I interviewed with USDS and the experience was not good. I don't love tech interviews in general but this one was somehow worse. I remember thinking the interview would have made more sense if they were hiring for PMs, but I wasn't a PM and didn't want to be one. Focusing on my communication abilities and professional history is one thing, but this ... wasn't that. I always wondered if others had the same experience. Maybe I just had the wrong interviewer on the wrong day.

You beat me to it. Minus the good will and civic mindedness that v1 had going for it of course.

No, USDS was about modernizing the government's tech systems in general.

This one is about jamming AI into shit:

> Tech Force will be an elite group of ~1,000 technology specialists hired by agencies to accelerate artificial intelligence (AI) implementation and solve the federal government's most critical technological challenges.

> ageism

This is DEI talk to them.

Last Day, Capricorn 25s, this is Carousel…

I find it deliciously fitting that the UX on this website kinda sucks.

> This is President Trump going bigger than President Nixon.

You don't say...

Because in this administration, I guess it is different.

The "US Government" are the people and agencies that DOGE tried to get rid of and that were taken out of their jobs or unable to provide any services due to the shutdown.

Whereas "The White House" is Trump and his buddies.

Welcome to the autocracy...

Employers would have to be pretty spiteful to look at it the way you purposed. I wouldn't want a spiteful employer.

The flip side is that a lot of government jobs lead to pretty good private sector opportunities working with those same agencies. If you want to contact to DOE, knowing how it works in the inside and knowing people there definitely helps.

A lot of military contractors are former military. Who better to design something for a soldier than a soldier?

Coinbase will probably look quite favorably that you have been on the inside of whatever their piece is.

I think you are right that you could face some challenges during the screening process but if you get to the interview this should be easy to explain with a face saving excuse.

"The tech industry was doing poorly and I was faced with a layoff so I took whatever job I could get. While I didn't agree with the actions of the administration I felt like I could be a force for good in an otherwise turbulent environment"

As we all know Nazi scientists went on to work for and lead parts of Nasa. The reputation hit of disreputable employers is dramatically overblown.

To be honest you can also get through issues with the resume screening process you can generally just change the wording and section headers a bit in order to avoid a quick filter out.

I'm pretty much a closet conservative working for big tech so I've had a lot of practice with this sort of stuff :D

I don't know the book, but I hope it isn't yet another complaint about bureaucracy in need of "business thinking". I.e., how deep are they digging to find the real players? Because you can bet your home this "AI" initiative is just another instance of Elite Capture¹ here. The last thing any government needs right now is letting its policies and implementations being steered by (and made dependent on) hallucinating "AI", whose ownership ultimately is in the hands of the democracy destroying tech oligarchs.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_capture

If you're looking for a semantic argument, Montreal is in America

The Emoji ones top and bottom or the animated banner?

well, it's going to be incredible. Its gonna be something like you've never seen before. I've never seen anything like it. In fact, I hear many say it's going to be one of the greatest Tech Forces they've ever seen, maybe even the greatest.

it has the Trump stench all over it, apparently. :(

oh no I wonder what will happen

Given the current administration's desire for unmitigated power, and SCOTUS' inclination to give it to them, there's really no such thing as a non-partisan role anymore. When you can be fired at any moment for any action the regime deems disloyal, you can't be nonpartisan.

They might as well be political appointments after Trump v Slaughter is decided since the unitary executive maximalists would swallow all for-cause job termination protections that have defined the professional civil service.

No one will force you do to such a thing, because no one who will not enthusiastically do this on their own accord will be hired.

Now that the administration killed 18-F and USDS, they need a new organization that does the same thing but consists of people loyal to this administration.

More seriously, one big difference is that USDS recognized that design is as important as technology. This org only wants engineering-types.

> We're looking for expertise in software engineering, artificial intelligence, cybersecurity, data analytics, or technical project management. Strong problem-solving abilities and a passion for public service are essential.

Something often observed in authoritarian states is duplication of effort because of empire building. The ruler cannot trust any of his underlings- they are all sucking up to him and backstabbing each other constantly, so he pits them against each other, assigning overlapping responsibilities on purpose to keep any one subordinate from becoming too strong. This is why all of the "fascism/communism is so efficient" arguments need to actually look at the nature of Soviet or Nazi governments. As an example, there were at least five completely separate armed ground forces in Nazi Germany (1).

This constant competition between parts of the government actually led to tremendous waste. You can see it again in the Soviet space program during the 1960's. While NASA had a single purpose of getting to the moon before 1971 with a unified organization under the control of a single leader, after Khrushchev was deposed (and Korolev died) the Soviet space program splintered into a war between the old OKB-1 (Korolev's group) and Chelomei's OKB-52 that lasted for twenty years over Super-Proton vs Energia etc.

1: The Wehrmacht and the Waffen-SS are the two most famous, but the Luftwaffe recruited, trained and equipped the Fallschirm-Panzer Korps and Fallshchirmjaeger- yes, German paratroops worked for Goering not the Wehrmacht. There were also five Marine Infantry Divisions under the Navy- they had half as many Marine Divisions as the US did, despite many fewer amphibious assaults! And the Volksturm, at the end of the war when things looked grim for Nazi Germany, was under NSDAP party control but separate from the Waffen-SS.

Those were services, this is a force

I'm assuming that unlike 18F or USDS, you'll likely be asked to do ethically-compromising things?

You're missing a half dozen others.

Yeah, this is nothing more than grandstanding idealism. Their staff will no doubtably be as dumb as Space Force or Air Force when it comes to cloud and technology. I've dealt with them in various forms throughout the years contracting. BESPIN was entirely contractor driven. Their devops pipelines and how to deploy things. If that's your indicator, good luck.

Fortunately that's addressed in the extremely fine FAQ:

> How is Tech Force related to other government technology programs, including ones at GSA or the United States DOGE Service?

> While Tech Force will coordinate across all of government, it is distinct from other technology initiatives within government, including the United States DOGE Service and programs managed by GSA. These programs differ in their mandates, structure, required skillsets, and ability to convert to the competitive service.

Any questions?

It looks like this is trying to fit into the same space as the former USDS and F18 which had term appointments. The key idea behind those was the industry partnership (recruiting experienced people from industry) and the knowledge/skills transfer that came with it. If you look at some other programs (Peace Corps, for instance) you'll see a similar thing. 2-year terms with extensions up to maybe 5 total years.

What's funny is the retirement benefits won't apply to most 2-year term employees. Unless they were prior military or civil service, or come back later, two years is not long enough to keep the TSP match (three year vesting period) or to qualify for the pension (five years). (EDIT: Funny because they explicitly list it as a benefit, but these folks won't qualify for it.)

The funny thing here is that the short (often 1-3 years) tenure that's so common in the industry leads to some absolute dogshit software. Good things take time. By limiting terms to 2 years you almost guarantee that outcome.

The biggest red flag on engineering resumes is never sticking at something for more than 2 years. Your bad decisions never catch up to you.

My guess is that they want young and ambitious people who will use this job as a springboard to bigger and better things.

I bet that will convince them to think differently

Also, try not to be brown.

Which was rebranded to DOGE.

Republicans love playing shell games while they rob taxpayers blind.

This looks like a way to force a few key players to gobble up all the federal dollars by forcing many executive controlled agencies to be force fed these LLM solutions because these same key players cannot sell their wares to the public so they need to steal public money, once again.

No, USDS became DOGE, which is still there, as is the GSA. This is probably just some dude's fief (Sacks perhaps?)

Im pretty sure this was one of the goals of the USDS before it was gutted and turned into DOGE. Also 18F (RIP)

This is a thing you can only say if you know very little about the talent pipeline for actual espionage technology in the USG, which: they do not have a lot of problems there. Lots of people don't share your precise values about espionage or about espionage technology, and the real jobs in this field are extremely high-status. There's competition to get them.

A lot of these places already have massive government contracts with their own management structures.

So the plan is to also make some of them federal employees, ostensibly helping to oversee those contracts? Seems like a conflict of interest...

>Remember that in just 3 years this will stop helping you to get hired, and will probably look like a blemish on your CV when you eventually need to get a new job.

The worst part about this entire political is that Dems are most likely gonna win, and everyone will just move on.

Im really hoping that Trump lives long enough to actually stage a coup and tank the US economy so hard that things like working for this or DOGE actually do start to matter.

> and will probably look like a blemish on your CV when you eventually need to get a new job.

Not necessarily, especially in the private sector. It's hard to justify not hiring an excellent employee because he or she worked for a company you don't like. Especially if the hiring panel is composed by >1 person.

Bullshit. There is no company in the US that refuses to hire defense contractor employees, ex military or anyone who has worked in defense earlier.

Edit: this seems like the usds with private sector participation. I know “doge” is basically just usds.

Right… because those definitely don’t already assist three-letter agencies and the presence of the largest tech companies on the planet on your CV will definitely somehow become a net negative because uh, orange man bad? I assume that’s what the 3 year window is about?

That's its official name. Obama had created the US Digital Service (USDS) back in 2014- it was essentially a formalization of the "Tiger Team" that had fixed Healthcare.gov the year before. The idea was that you would take mid-career to senior SDE's, PM's, UX people, DevOps, etc. from industry, and bring them into the government for a 2-3 year period, where they would jump into a specific government IT thing and fix it up, revamp and improve, and then after a few years leave the USDS and go back to industry. It was part of the Executive Office of the President, though it was funded by Congress through 2024 (and then via CR like the rest of the government until the shutdown).

It wasn't a large group, and they weren't really responsible for much so they never got much attention. They would just try and fix a few specific pain points at a time. I only knew about it because one of the best PM's I ever worked for did a stint exactly like it was supposed to work- she joined the USDS, worked for the American people for a few years, then left and went back to industry.

And then on January 21st, 2025, his first full day in office, Trump renamed the USDS to the United States DOGE Service, because USDS had money to pay salaries and since it was part of the EotP he could easily hire new people without civil service restrictions. So he could bring in new people (Big Balls etc.) easily enough. By February, essentially everyone who had been in the USDS on the last day of Biden's term were either laid off or resigned. And since then the USDS has been entirely DOGEified.

That’s your choice, though please consider that many people who worked for those places may have done so before the behavior you disagree with started. Also consider that there are reasons to work for an organization other than “paycheck” and “alignment with organization priorities”, and that it is entirely possible (and sometimes uniquely possible) to do important, beneficial work while employed by an organization with which you fundamentally do not agree; the majority of my resume lines fit this description, I think.

Reasonable minds can differ as to whether that constitutes unethicality or hypocrisy.

It seems absolutely crazy to me not to hire someone because you don't like a company they worked for.

I don't love seeing that you're far from the only person to mention it here. It's just shouting "I'm biased and I'm proud" from the top of your lungs.

You assume any of them would even want to work for/with you...

I know I wouldn't want to work for or with someone or some company so close-minded as to use this sort of thing as some sort of candidate filter.

Oddly, one of the FAQs does call it the Department of War.