cxr
4 hours ago
This post contains some interesting ideas and poses (or at least suggestively alludes to) a few thought-provoking questions but is weakened by spending too much of its word (and the author's thinking) budget on tangents about LLMs.
Side note: mashups and widget engines occupied a substantial part of technophiles' focus (incl. power users and programmers) 15–20 years ago. The W3C chartered a working group to investigate harmonizing different implementations. That interest eventually evaporated, and they all went away. It's almost eerie how rare it is to find any modern reference to something that consumed so much attention at the time. It'd be reasonable to wager that the majority of programmers under 25 have never even heard of Konfabulator or are aware of the hype that existed around other vendors' similar offerings.
I'm waiting for when a new browser maker comes along and gains market share by shaking up the conventional browser UI by offering stuff like a widget engine built into the browser and basic missing functionality like better UX around site logins (including its own native UI for ordinary (i.e. non-Cookie-based) HTTP auth), native support for dealing with tabular data (like sorting tables) and CSV, and of course direct authoring of Web resources—instead of offloading that to e.g. Google Docs and startups like Notion whose browser-based apps don't clearly separate the editor/tooling from the content, which in turns means it never really feels like first-class media that's really "of" the Web.
munificent
2 hours ago
OpenDoc [1] was another attempt in this space.
I think the fundamental problem was that no one ever figured out a business model around components. You can get people to buy an application and the application could edit its own files. But it's not clear how a document or app that contains a mash-up of pieces of code written by different companies is paid for.
Would users be willing to pay for a component that let them add charts to their word processing docs? Would that mean no one else could open the doc unless they had the same component? It didn't seem at the time like there was a business model that held together.
(The somewhat related counter-example is modern digital audio workstations. Third-party plug-ins ["VSTs"] are a remarkably success model there for both users and businesses. And users do seem to understand and accept that, yes, if your project uses some audio plug-ins then anyone else you collaborate with needs to have those same plug-ins.)
_young_grug_
2 hours ago
I reckon components either have to be free, or the "platform" pays top creators. The latter is hard...but one could execute it better thank tiktok, who did it very inequitably - but it was still incentive enough.
_young_grug_
3 hours ago
A browser like that would be so great! I wonder if a chromium base (as is trending) would enable it...
jauntywundrkind
2 hours ago
Mashup engines were so gloriously hopeful.
It feels like Opera browser was super early (as usual), with widgets (2008). Eventually we had a widget spec (2013). Overall PWAs cover a lot of this terrain today as a packagable standalone webapp, but also there was a lot more excitement in the world about small UI programs that overlayed and/or worked with your desktop at large, that we don't see today (but omgosh I wish Project Fugu had browbeaten Android into having a capable web home screen widget option!) https://www.wired.com/2008/05/opera-targets-widget-developer... https://www.w3.org/TR/widgets-apis/
But more than widgets, there were such interesting attempts ongoing to stitch together an inter-site inter-networked web. Google Buzz's protocols & especially the Digital Salmon protocol (2010) was a fore-runner to Mastadon, a way for discrete digital identities to push Atom/RSS like entries (such as a "like" or comment) at each other. Trying to work under the Open Web Foundation (OWF). http://blog.jclark.com/2010/02/tour-of-open-standards-used-b... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1140893
Even before this, the OpenSocial folks were working on very ambitious cross-site data and widget systems. I really think some deep-diving technical retrospectives into OpenSocial would be incredible, could maybe help us shake loose some of the rut we're in with uncomposeable consumeristic computing being the only thing we can even think to do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSocial