USB-A isn't going anywhere, so stop removing the port

27 pointsposted 5 months ago
by speckx
(pocket-lint.com)

57 Comments

1970-01-01

5 months ago

Same thing was said about floppy drive, DVD, serial ports, and VGA. We're allowed to sunset things.

hollerith

5 months ago

Serial ports are still used a fair amount, particularly to interface with stuff that you cannot buy at a local retailer.

So, how do you know that USB A won't have a lifetime of 63 years (the age of the RS-232 standard for serial ports)?

maxerickson

5 months ago

This is not responsive to the context (which is about what ports ship on mass market devices).

hollerith

5 months ago

Fair point.

But a computer I bought new 22 months ago (on which I am writing these words) has 7 USB A ports, 1 serial port and 0 USB C ports.

rkomorn

5 months ago

I'm quite confused by how hard to come by USB-C ports are on desktops coming out nowadays.

It's hardly ever more than two, if that.

wolrah

5 months ago

I think part of it is that for ports up to 10gbit/sec there aren't really as many advantages to using type C on a desktop as on a laptop.

Most desktop computers have dedicated graphics or at least the ability to have dedicated graphics and don't have the input connectors to feed video from the GPU to the USB mux. Most desktop computers can't run off of USB power. Most desktop computers aren't installed in environments where a single cable running to a desktop dock is desirable. Most desktop computers aren't space constrained.

Also adapters that convert a type A port to type C are tiny, they stick out about as far as a mouse dongle making the whole assembly not much larger than a normal A cable. Cables with one A end and one C end are everywhere. Dongles just aren't as inconvenient in a desktop context where you plug them in and leave them.

If you don't actually need the extra data lanes in the connector, there's not really much advantage to using it and for a desktop that is likely to be replacing an existing one with a lot of A connectors plugged in that's a hard push.

IMO laptops should have one or two A ports and as many C ports as they can fit, but desktops I'm not against leaning towards A with just as many C ports as they need to support their USB3.2/4/TB capabilities.

stefanfisk

5 months ago

I've been looking for a powered desktop USB hub with both A and C ports and there just doesn't seem to be any reasonable products out there. It's all laptop hub and docs that require that connect to a C port via a 4" cable.

NekkoDroid

5 months ago

And usually its on the case and not at the back of the MoBo. Mine does have a single one, but on the MoBo since I made sure that I had at least one for my capture card.

1970-01-01

5 months ago

That's even worse. Name a well selling smartphone that has USB-A ports.

tracker1

5 months ago

Name one that ever did... A is usually the host side, and the phones that did were via adapter.

wolrah

5 months ago

A is only the host side on devices not made by total idiots.

While there are a surprising number of devices that get this wrong, and I have never understood why, they are always wrong. It seems to be mostly cheap external hard drive enclosures and scanners I've seen using a type-A port for their upstream-facing port and shipping with the cursed A to A cable.

barnabee

5 months ago

I still use serial ports pretty regularly…

…via USB-to-serial adapters plugged into the USB C port of my laptop.

1970-01-01

5 months ago

It doesn't make sense to extrapolate tech lifetime linearly. Once we hit the physical limits of physical connections, then we can revisit the I/O timelines.

stefan_

5 months ago

Ok, then follow through please?

Having two ports with one taken up for charging (so one usable) is inadequate. But I suppose the problem with adding more is now you need to offer all the things that could be connected on all of them. But you are not willing to provision the hardware to do that. Thats not sunsetting, thats being cheap.

bombcar

5 months ago

Since you can buy adapters that let you charge and use the data on the same MacBook port, they should build that into the charger.

The charger could have a USB C or A port on it easily.

ToDougie

5 months ago

Here I am with my stupid USB-C ports that have an ugly, unwieldy dongle attached to them so that I can use my USB-A devices. If this is the future, I don't like it.

shikon7

5 months ago

The future is (supposed to be) that you don't have any USB-A devices.

JohnFen

5 months ago

That future is a very, very long way off.

chrsw

5 months ago

I’m willing to live with not having a USB-A port on a Mac. Not so much on a PC.

I have a Razer Blade. One USB-A and one USB-C on each side of the machine. It just makes so much sense.

izacus

5 months ago

I dunno, I also have a Razer Blade and a MacBook and the lack of that one A port pisses me off regularly. Meanwhile the Razer team managed to fit it next to Thunderbolt and other ports.

It's just such a pointlesslly user hostile move for some Californian dude to make a point about progress.

foxyv

5 months ago

I really love that all I have to plug into my Macbook is a single cable for video, accessories, network, etc... I'm totally not a fan of trying to find the right direction to plug in my HDMI and such on my PC. I missed out on video over USBC by one generation and it kind of sucks.

goosedragons

5 months ago

Why exactly? Are you just using the USB A port for a mouse on the PC but not Mac? That's the only sensible thing I can think of.

Personally I'd rather use a USB C hub anyways. I don't want to plug in more than a cable if I don't have to.

chrsw

5 months ago

I guess it's the type of things I use the machines for. I do a lot of embedded software development and some gaming on Windows so not having USB-A is a showstopper. On my Mac I don't do those sorts of things.

Would I buy a Mac with USB-A? Absolutely.

stouset

5 months ago

This is the mindset that will keep USB-A ports around forever. Somebody has to be the one to move the world forward, and it's usually Apple who's most willing to retire old ports. At this point I would kill for an Anker battery pack with three or four USB-C ports, instead every single one of them contains wasted USB-A ones that I have no use for.

USB-A had a long life. It's time to move on.

barnabee

5 months ago

Yep! I keep a couple of C to A adapters in my bag and have literally zero desire or need for USB A ports anywhere else, be it laptops, chargers, or wherever.

foxyv

5 months ago

Yeah, I've stopped buying Micro-USB and USB-A cables and just have a ton of adapters for my USB-C cables. Makes life so much easier not needing to dig through a pile of spaghetti and staring at the little metal bits to try and find what I'm looking for.

cleartext412

5 months ago

With appliances like battery pack the explanation could be that Type A ports are dirt cheap compared to Type C with all the speed and power requirements, so even removing four Type A would not save enough for another Type C.

kirito1337

5 months ago

Tbh USB-A is still a part of my daily life.

andrewmcwatters

5 months ago

VGA isn’t going anywhere so stop removing it. DVI isn’t going anywhere so stop removing it.

What a dumb comment. USB-C has been available for over a decade now. Just drop type A and force everyone to use adapters for their remaining type A devices since we’re all forced at this point to use them anyway.

Just kill it off already.

polski-g

5 months ago

Rack servers still use VGA. Yes, please stop removing it from monitors.

eqvinox

5 months ago

Rack servers have IPMI. Yes please stop making me take trips to datacenters ;)

kirito1337

5 months ago

my daily driver pc has vga and i use it

robotnikman

5 months ago

It would be nice if there were USB-C hubs like there are USB 3.0 hubs to get more ports. But all the 'hubs' for USB-C are basically docks with HDMI, Ethernet, etc, and maybe give 2 extra USB-C ports at most

foxyv

5 months ago

I was looking for this the other day. It's a bit of a disaster isn't it? Generally speaking though, what your are looking for is a "Splitter" like this one:

https://a.co/d/8OieM1k

They don't really call them USB-C "Hubs" like they do the old USB-A ones. Mostly I just use a big old USB-A dock and a ton of adapters now.

robotnikman

5 months ago

Now that's what I'm looking for, thank you!

v9v

5 months ago

Any USB-C ports on my laptops go unused, so I exclusively buy devices with min. 3 USB-A ports. All of my peripherals and cables are USB-A, and it's so much easier to tinker with USB-A ports due to the smaller amount of pins (easy to jam in multimeter probes etc)

khedoros1

5 months ago

Same for me, in most cases. I had a work laptop with a USB-C dock. I've got a USB-C ethernet adapter (not used right now, because my laptop has an ethernet port). I've got a couple of USB-C charging cables. Oh, and a DAC dongle that I typically use with my phone.

Then I've got dozens of charging cables, peripherals, storage devices, and such that I've collected across the past 25 or so years, and still want to use.

tracker1

5 months ago

Every time I find myself wanting to just quickly use a thumb drive by I'm on my M1 Air laptop... sigh Don't have a dongle with me, so guess it'll have to wait.

I'd be fine with 2 of each even accepting 1 of the two USB-C ports will probably be for charging.

bombcar

5 months ago

I refuse to buy anything but those thumb drives with both connectors, but of course you’re always using someone else’s …

tracker1

5 months ago

Not always someone else's but I do have over a dozen 16-256gb drives already. The couple of nvme adapters I have already have both.

jmrm

5 months ago

We already have some USB-C flash drives. Isn't just more practical to have USB-C keyboards, mice, and other devices like that instead of conserving the USB A?

FireBeyond

5 months ago

> Apple phased out USB-A years ago

Weird. The latest Mac Pro has USB A ports.

So does the Mac Studio.

tracker1

5 months ago

Yeah, my M1 air doesn't.

FireBeyond

5 months ago

Nor does my MBP. But Apple hasn't "phased out" USB A yet, on their desktops.

blacksmith_tb

5 months ago

My M4 Mini doesn't have any A ports, so I expect the rest will follow as they get new revs.

duxup

5 months ago

That was a long read to get to this:

> It seems pointless to spend money upgrading hardware, like mice and keyboards, to a new port when the benefits are questionable, and you probably won't notice a performance difference.

Not a very strong or convincing argument.

taylodl

5 months ago

Right? If manufacturers stopped permanently attaching USB cables to mice and keyboards, then the problem is solved. That way you can get the cable you need, or maybe you decide to go cordless. It's up to you.

eqvinox

5 months ago

Sadly, the port is [a few cents] more expensive than the captive cable, especially with USB >= 3.0* on USB-C where a port must handle connector reversal. (And if course if you look at "final price" with including a cable in the box :/)

* e.g. keyboard with USB3 hub

(FWIW my mouse actually has a USB-C port, it's a dual wired/wireless Keychron M6. Really nice way of doing it IMHO.)

Btw, "port must handle reversal" is why USB-C -> USB-C + optional C-to-A adapter have the adapter fixed on so you can't rotate it. It's not just good UX, the adapter would also otherwise need to handle reversal.

taylodl

5 months ago

I wouldn't include the cable in the box and I certainly wouldn't worry about USB >= 3.0 for a mouse or keyboard.

eqvinox

5 months ago

You pretty much have to include the cable at least for a mouse since a normal cable will be either too rigid or die rather quickly to the continuous movement. The one my mouse came with has a rather nice woven mantle and is quite flexible, hopefully without breaking soon (haven't had the mouse for that long yet, will see.)

taylodl

5 months ago

The cable that came with my Logitech mouse is the cheapest cable imaginable and is non-replaceable. I guarantee the mouse will last longer than the cable, which is 18 months old and already has 3 tears in the outer sheath.

eqvinox

5 months ago

Maybe buy less shitty mice ;-)

My last 2 mice both died to microswitch failures, one hard failure (just didn't do anything), one soft failure (just became very mushy and annoying to use). Don't remember before that.

taylodl

5 months ago

Yeah, but the component that's failing is the component that shouldn't have even been part of the package in the first place.

tracker1

5 months ago

Half the keyboards I've used in the past few years are detachable on the keyboard end. :-) Though, they mostly have 2 A ports for N-key rollover support.

JumpCrisscross

5 months ago

Particularly when the problem is sidestepped with a dongle.

DiabloD3

5 months ago

I honestly don't give a shit anymore.

I have female-A-to-male-C cables, I have male-A-to-female-C cables. Some of them have the USB 3 pins (which has kind of been a niche case for C in my life), all of them are safe up to 5A power.

All my computers that didn't have C now have at least one, and all of my C-only computers have an A they can use if they need one.