arto
9 hours ago
It is during a Starlink outage that one ought to cultivate the proper perspective about it, remembering to appreciate the technological miracle and marvel that it is.
This message beamed to space from an undisclosed location and distributed globally within a split second. (Now that service is restored.)
qwertox
8 hours ago
> This message beamed to space from an undisclosed location
Just as undisclosed as the location I posted this message from, also distributed globally. For Starlink, and therefore for the authorities, your position is well known.
user
6 hours ago
traceroute66
6 hours ago
> the technological miracle and marvel that it is
Its not a miracle or a marvel, its basic physics.
LEO satellites will provide better internet experience than traditional satellites because they are closer to the earth.
Now, whether you want to blow smoke up Mr Musk's backside because he was the first to market with Starlink is a different subject. But it also not a subject worthy of the "miracle" or "marvel" title.
Personally I look forward to the day where there's a competitor product available, its merely a case of when not if.
Most Western countries are also busy improving fibre coverage to rural areas as old copper networks get decommissioned.
throwaway77385
6 hours ago
> Most Western countries are also busy improving fibre coverage to rural areas as old copper networks get decommissioned.
Ahaha, tell that to the UK countryside. I'm the last person who wants to stuff more money up Elmo's arse, but I have no other choice. Cannot wait for a competitor to show up, but just look at the head-start that Starlink has.
traceroute66
6 hours ago
> tell that to the UK countryside
The UK countryside has already come a long way from where it was 5–10 years ago.
The problem with the UK is the regulatory/government environment.
The incumbent (BT) were given a large chunk of money 20 years ago for fibre deployment, but they were allowed to cherry-pick their deployments and so inevitably chose the low-hanging-fruit of the conurbations.
I would think 100% FTTC coverage will happen sooner than you think. FTTP clearly harder to forecast, most likely another 5–10 years, sadly.
You might see better 5G coverage sooner, of course.
opless
6 hours ago
True.
I'm in rural UK. Blessed with fast fibre. However if the power goes out, it's a proper blackout. I'm slowly sorting out the ups situation along with nut
When the power goes out or fibre dies I cannot rely on 4/5G as they die also, so starlink is the only option
Xss3
6 hours ago
Out of all countries the UK is pretty blessed regarding rural internet access. Definitely one of the best.... Just not specifically for you.
kolla
4 hours ago
UK has about 70% fiber coverage. Sweden has 97% network gigabit-capable coverage and we have way lower population density.
philipallstar
6 hours ago
> LEO satellites will provide better internet experience than traditional satellites because they are closer to the earth.
The physics is the easiest bit of what Starlink have done.
traceroute66
6 hours ago
> The physics is the easiest bit of what Starlink have done.
In 2025 I don't think anybody should consider automated satellite tracking using an SDR software loop to be a miracle. ;)
bad_haircut72
9 hours ago
Not a time to get philosophical when your drone team on the zero line in Ukraine loses comms
user
9 hours ago
paganel
6 hours ago
They should always have had a second, back-up option, because relying on such a brittle a thing as satellite comms when fighting a military power like Russia was bound to have issues.
jwr
6 hours ago
I'm pretty sure they know that. Especially as Starlink is brittle mostly because of its (rather disgusting at this point) founder figure and his ramblings. But this is armchair advice: what other options do they have and how do you fund them?
(most of Starlink for the Ukrainian army is being paid for by Poland)
bamboozled
5 hours ago
Eutelsat OneWeb, I believe I read that it's already been deployed Ukraine. I might be wrong but I think I heard it on "Ukraine, the latest" podcast.
piokoch
4 hours ago
I think Ukraine is using military version of Starlink - Starshield, maybe it does not have issues.
tjpnz
8 hours ago
Which is why they don't use it for that. Too susceptible to jamming and Elon's politics on a given day. All their drones will be fly by (fiber optic) wire now.
dmbche
7 hours ago
Many use cases are better served without fiber (as fiber causes limited range, limited payload and need for unhampered (not through tree branches for example) access to target
MangoToupe
7 hours ago
I think the latest Geran-2s either use starlink (suspect) or guowang (more likely). I can't find reliable confirmation of which one.
Yoric
7 hours ago
Geran? That's the Russian drones, right?
MangoToupe
2 hours ago
Yes. A variant of the Iranian Shahed 136 drone.
sfn42
7 hours ago
[flagged]
WJW
7 hours ago
> You're just gonna have a kilometers long "wire" to control a drone?
Yup. Fiber optic cables are lightweight and thin, so you can stick 10 km+ in a spindle on the drone that unwinds as you fly.
> I'd much rather just lose some drones to jamming. They seem to be cheap and replaceable.
They *are* cheap and replaceable, but you don't send them out for the fun of it. If the drones don't hit the vehicles/soldiers/whatever that you send them at, those enemy assets are going to kill your own soldiers. Especially now that many vehicles on the front lines are equipped with jammers, have non-radio comms is super useful for making sure the drone actually gets where it needs to go.
That said only about 20% of FPV drones are fiber optic at the moment, because radio does have a lot of advantages when it comes to range and maneuverability.
Joel_Mckay
7 hours ago
In general, your notions of front-line combat strategy is wrong.
People on both sides used the fiber-optic platforms to target the RF Jammers/platforms first, and then deploy normal FPV platforms to chase down the soldiers.
Note, one may buy a fiber network link kit for drones for around $650 USD off China online stores. Try to be more precise if you don't know something. =3
WJW
4 hours ago
Your post doesn't address anything that I said but still complains I'm wrong. Try to be more precise too, thanks.
paganel
6 hours ago
The drone tactics are changing by the week, to not say by the day, as I just saw a video 3-4 days ago of an Ukrainian soldier who had just cut the wire on a Russia fiber-optic drone and then a second fiber-optic drone came and took his life. So making generalisations like that might not be always right on the spot.
Joel_Mckay
6 hours ago
Yes, the fiber-units have also been used in ambush/trap setups, as they can sit dormant a lot longer.
Not a good time for all involved, that is for sure. =3
paganel
5 hours ago
> can sit dormant a lot longer
Surprised that no-one posted the video of the UA drone ambushing three Russian drones that were sitting on the ground, ready for an ambush. Here it is [1]. This is really next-level warfare from both sides directly involved. Non-fiber optic, as far as I can tell, at least not the Russian ones.
[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1neozv...
simonh
7 hours ago
They use optical fibres several km long. Both the Russians and Ukrainians do this heavily now because short range jamming has become very effective.
ludwigschubert
7 hours ago
You seem to sound dismissive, and it did sound wild to me too, yet that is indeed happening and well documented. The “wires” are kilometer long thin fiber optic cables that are spooled off the drones. See for example: https://www.businessinsider.com/unjammable-fiber-optic-drone...
rsynnott
7 hours ago
Absurd as it sounds, yes, both Ukraine and Russia use wired drones to counter jamming.
simne
7 hours ago
Optical fiber have serious disadvantages, but it gives reliable and very high quality digital link, length depend on how much fiber drone could have onboard.
- For quadrocopters practical up to 30 km; for terrain drones (wheel or caterpillar), could be 60 km or even 90 km.
myfonj
7 hours ago
Sorry if I've misunderstood sarcasm and taken your comment at face value, but are you really unaware of current developments? There are fields literally covered with thick webs of optical fibre near front lines. "Fibre optic drone" even has its own Wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_optic_drone
I understand that keeping track of news can be difficult, and staying out of that depressing information cycle has clear mental health benefits. However, when joining discussions about current conflicts, it's worth acknowledging any resulting knowledge gaps.
sfn42
7 hours ago
I had no idea. A kilometers long wire sounded completely infeasible to me, though clearly I underestimated the fiber optics.
I would have thought kilometers of wire would be too heavy to keep on a spool on the drone itself, and without the spool on the drone you probably can't have fly by wire. That's why I was dismissive, it sounded to me like a completely infeasible idea.
myfonj
6 hours ago
Fair enough, I remember being sceptical myself when I first read about that. Well, learnt something new today, at least. (In that WP article I see that wire-guided war devices are much older invention than I thought.)
lucianbr
7 hours ago
Maybe apply something similar to the Chesterton Fence principle: don't be dismissive of an idea unless you really understand the ins and outs of it.
tjpnz
7 hours ago
Typically they'll have a spindle that will give them 10KM+ distance. Some have significantly more.
bruffen
8 hours ago
[flagged]
zubspace
7 hours ago
Maybe I'm missinformed, but doesn't starlink have to comply with rules made by local authorities? Afaik, when the internet goes down, like it happened in Thailand, Starlink can't be used too, because it always roots traffic to a ground station near the source.
If this would not happen, I would agree that Starlink is the future. But as it is right now, I don't see the point, unless you are living in or travelling to remote places.
philipallstar
6 hours ago
I think lots more is routed through the satellite network now[0].
[0] https://hackaday.com/2024/02/05/starlinks-inter-satellite-la...
YeahThisIsMe
7 hours ago
Or one could just not be weird about it.
yzydserd
8 hours ago
> appreciate the technological miracle
What part of the solution is a technological miracle?
unkulunkulu
7 hours ago
The whole possibility of it.
If you put yourself in a position “one foot from success”, then you will be able to devalue any achievement this way.
If you see from the point of “empty universe”, you will see magic everywhere. This is the real magic.
yzydserd
4 hours ago
Personally, I think magic and miracle are terrible words to describe astounding technological achievements. The avoidance of the words in no way devalues the achievement. If anything, I feel their use devalues the achievement, assigning progress to luck or providence.
Joel_Mckay
8 hours ago
The Suns 11-year cycle is hitting the ionosphere hard right now.
Great for Ham Radio bounce contacts, but a lot of space equipment won't do well. =3
People are still unsure why the sun hasn't accidentally cooked us thus far:
LightBug1
6 hours ago
Which funds the dreams of a disgusting man-baby. No thanks.
I guess it's a branding problem more than anything.