My Failures Onboarding at Splunk

64 pointsposted 5 days ago
by mooreds

55 Comments

hariwb

a day ago

I think many readers here have had a pretty negative experience with a new manager parachuting in (usually as a referral from other senior leadership), immediately deciding that the team is underperforming without knowing much about the business context, technical constraints, and company culture that led to the current environment, and making big structural changes without consulting the boots-on-the-ground folks. Usually we hear stories from the engineers who are disaffected. This feels like an anecdote from the other side.

It's not wrong to wonder about your career trajectory, but it's telling to see someone pretty nakedly talk about optimizing for changing their level at a company, before they've even landed there and evaluated if they can help / how they are helping their team. I'm not naive, and I recognize those people exist and can acknowledge that they can do good work. But if someone came into my workplace with the mindset of "aggressively [seeking] to showcase my leadership within the first few weeks" and their goal was going "from Senior Manager to Director in ... 12 months", I'd be skeptical that they weren't going to damage peer relationships and optimize for being recognized at the expense of their direct reports, even if I thought they could be a valuable asset in the short term.

meesles

21 hours ago

Totally agree. This reads to me as someone who is more concerned with their trajectory and appearance than actually doing the work. I believe in doing hard work well, then showing it off to earn growth. It should be deliberate, but if your end goal is the title then I will smell then lack of sincerity immediately.

The tone of the writer comes across as mildly entitled as if they, just by wanting it, are entitled to the role. No mention of other senior leaders in the company that may have been on the same trajectory at the same time, and how he was measuring up against his peers. Most of the achievements listed in this post are purely overseeing groups of people, which in itself is the bare minimum for this level of leadership. I also perceive some cultural barriers in this post.

mhedgpeth

a day ago

I'm the author of the post. Yeah you got it right, I think the hiring process got me into that mindset, i.e. "This is a step back from you title-wise but you'll get back there quickly". So the hiring process made all that look too easy and in retrospect got me into the wrong state of mind.

What I should have done, at the point of being hired, is to drop all that, and focus patiently on what I needed to do. And I'm sharing it because not enough people share this side of it, and because I am working on elements that would have made it better. Thanks for reading! :)

paulcole

20 hours ago

Curious what your estimate is for what percentage of teams are actually underperforming?

And then of those underperforming teams, what percentage of those would the team members identify themselves as part of underperforming teams?

dsr_

a day ago

When I was in big corps, I understood but really disliked the idea that people would do work in order to get a promotion. That's the only incentive structure they've set up, so that's what you do.

What I like about well-run small companies is that there is essentially no chance of a promotion: all we can do is do our work better, improve processes and make our customers (internal and external) happier. If you hook monetary rewards to title and responsibility treadmills, you lose all that. Hypergrowth is a trap.

lmeyerov

a day ago

I like growth-oriented startups in that it is more of a team sport here. The promotion is pretty directly tied to:

* Doing your part to make the revenue grow. For management, going from say $1M annual revenue in seed to $3M in A means the company can support 3X the staff. Joining a startup is basically a bet that you can outperform when unleashed.

* Surf that wave. Show it makes sense to put new hires below you vs above, or give you increasingly big responsibilities, etc, bc you managed the past ones well. Startups run to their limit so can feel like pressure cookers, and they're relatively small, so your demonstrated ability should be pretty apparent to hands-on leadership.

* Compensation comes out of that. Stock becomes worth more, you get bigger refreshers, more experience, new title, etc

wahnfrieden

a day ago

It’s because owners hoard the equity so workers have minimal stake in outcomes (usually the chance of the company tanking resulting in job loss is not a primary motivator or perceived risk either).

Small companies that aren’t worker-owned and without promotion ladders aren’t immune to this. They get workers who strive toward promotion via job switching.

You can debate the fairness of equity hoarding by those who invest money into the business but it doesn’t change the worker dynamics

sokoloff

a day ago

Employees are often not in a position (financially or sometimes legally) to take a reduction in cash in order to take an increased proportion of their value in equity.

wahnfrieden

a day ago

Who decides that tradeoff? You are only reinforcing why workers have no stake in outcomes. Worker-owned organizations afford both

sokoloff

a day ago

I believe that employees and employers both make choices that they think are in their best interests.

Employees might want to receive the most cash they can right now (and therefore prefer 100 units of cash over 90 units of cash and 10 of equity compensation). We shouldn't force them to accept a different mix of compensation, particularly one which forces them to invest in their employer via such a tradeoff. They might choose to work at business X instead of worker-owned cooperative Y for any number of reasons.

Employers think about the value proposition they offer to attract and retain employees and if there are 100 units of compensation available to be paid and they have reason to think that employees prefer cash over equity, they are likely to offer all 100 units of comp in cash rather than 90 units of cash and 10 units of equity. There's no sense tying up 10 units of equity that an employee only values as being equivalent to 5 units of cash.

In the case of workers working for public companies, they have a straightforward way to invest in their company if they want: take some of the cash and buy shares in the company. That's barred in most cases for private companies by practicality and accredited investor rules.

wahnfrieden

a day ago

Worker-owned co-ops are also free to offer cash vs equity options. The difference is that they don't have a hierarchy of ownership hoarding whatever the market will bear.

sokoloff

a day ago

Great/agreed that they could offer choice. I wish them and the employees who choose to work at them well.

wahnfrieden

a day ago

There's no choice to be had, it doesn't substantially exist in tech. It takes organizing and coordinating various resources to make a new reality, not passively evaluating current options at hand. So it's not productive to evaluate their viability based on what currently exists as if it's already a choice unorganized workers have evaluated and made. But it is an idea that is appealing even to some founders (there are upsides to working alongside people with a stake in outcomes) and some are working toward making this possible for workers to choose.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/dataviz/dfa/distr...

FreakLegion

15 hours ago

Most startups are open to trading cash for equity if you ask. Many even offer it explicitly. Investors also encourage it, e.g. see Index's Rewarding Talent guide: https://www.indexventures.com/rewarding-talent/balancing-cas....

When I make someone an offer, I give them a spreadsheet where they can plug in different salaries and equity stakes to see outcomes based on future funding events, valuations, and exit scenarios. Without exception the people who've leaned into equity have turned out to be the best performers and ended up with higher salaries anyway, but a majority favor cash up front.

wahnfrieden

14 hours ago

I addressed this elsewhere in this thread

sokoloff

a day ago

Be the change you want to see in the world?

As you find reasons to object to that, many of those reasons are likely the same shared by others and make this a vastly less common arrangement, because someone has to take on the massive initial risk to start and fund the business through the unavoidable period of initial losses and probably wants to see a way to having a compensating upside in the event of success.

wahnfrieden

19 hours ago

Well now you're talking about what investors want (including if the founder is also the investor sure). That's a reflection of the funding climate

sokoloff

18 hours ago

I'm talking about the financial realities of starting a company from scratch, which impacts how many companies get started in what form and might be a significant part of the explanation why you aren't seeing as many worker-owned companies as you express a preference for.

Brainstorming and figuring a way to address that might be a way to help you mold/nudge the world towards your preference.

alemanek

a day ago

That is an interesting point. Co-ops seem like they should out perform from a worker incentive point of view. But, why are co-ops basically non-existent in Big Tech. WinCo, groceries, and REI, expensive outdoor stuff, in the US are both big co-ops but are retailers.

Maybe VC money warps the economics so that every company needs to be winner takes all lotto tickets for the investors. Having it be worker owned gets rid of the extreme ROÍ VCs expect.

If you know any papers on the subject I would be interested though.

dragonwriter

a day ago

> Co-ops seem like they should out perform from a worker incentive point of view. , why are co-ops basically non-existent in Big Tech. WinCo, groceries, and REI, expensive outdoor stuff, in the US are both big co-ops but are retailers.

REI is a consumer coop, not a labor co-op (and WinCo, while employee-owned through an ESOP, is not a co-op at all.)

Cooperative Home Care Associates, a home health care agency HQ’d in the Bronx, appears to be the largest US labor cooperatives (and labor intensive service industries are probably the most common places to find labor coops in the US.)

> Maybe VC money warps the economics so that every company needs to be winner takes all lotto tickets for the investors. Having it be worker owned gets rid of the extreme ROÍ VCs expect.

Right. VC goals and labor coop goals are almost never aligned, and instead are almost diametrically opposed. Labor coops tend to favor conservative expansion and risk mitigation and stability. VC’s want to swing for the fences on scale—a succesful steady-state business that will pay its founding employees good pay forever but not expand much is a massive failure for VCs, but a win for a labor coop.

alemanek

20 hours ago

Oh thanks for setting me straight on WinCo and REI. I didn’t realize they weren’t labor co-ops. That is what I get for being lazy and not questioning the marketing. Too late for me to edit my post though.

wahnfrieden

a day ago

REI is not worker-owned FYI. It's a consumer-owned co-op. Different beast

VCs are not interested in worker-owned coops. Economic climate works against the concept at scale. Workers are also divided on it and are not organized around enabling it. Employers are highly coordinated on maintaining current employer-worker relations.

edit: here is some related reading you might find interesting:

- Sociocracy - consent-based decision-making organizations (as opposed to dreadful unanimous decision-making which doesn't work and is a common criticism of non-hierarchical organizations) https://www.sociocracyforall.org/sociocracy/ // https://sociocracy30.org

- a UK tech co-op network: https://www.coops.tech but it seems a lot of these are more tech services than product companies

alemanek

20 hours ago

Thank you for the links and the correction on REI. I wasn’t aware that consumer co-ops were even a thing. I have some reading to do. Too late to edit my parent post unfortunately.

ghaff

20 hours ago

There are a lot of retail consumer co-ops, especially in the grocery area. REI is a relatively large example although it's not huge by retail and certainly tech standards.

glitchc

a day ago

Capitalism works because the worker feels they deserve better and will go to the open market to get it. Some workers may choose to become their own bosses. The free market makes it possible.

Hypergrowth is an extreme, but so is a communist mentality where everyone is happy where they are and does not see any incentive to improve. There is a moderate middle ground that is best for economic mobility.

theptip

a day ago

> and therefore aggressively sought to showcase my leadership within the first few weeks

I feel this is as close to “Management 101” as it gets, or even “employee-ing 101”, as it applies to technical roles too.

Don’t do it!

Just write down your list of gripes for the first month; use them as your list of things to ramp up on.

If something seems odd or wrong, it may be actually broken, but it’s unlikely to be so urgent that you have to go out on a limb like this.

It’s more likely that there is some context you are missing. By Chesterton’s Fence you need to spend some energy to understand why the thing was put there, before you tear it down.

Even if you are right - you will face an uphill battle because you haven’t built trust yet. So pick your battles carefully!

philjohn

a day ago

The "WTF" list technique is great for this.

Every time you see, or encounter, something that makes you go "WTF?!??" you write it down.

Chances are you don't have NEARLY enough context yet to figure out why it's like that, and so barelling in to "fix" it is just going to lead to frustration and bruised ego's all around.

After a few months you'll either have crossed off things "Oh, THAT's WTF" or you have a list of things to start chipping away at, now that you have the FULL context.

mhedgpeth

a day ago

From the author of the post: 100% I knew this advice but didn't follow it. Being patient early on is SO important!

I think the hard thing is as on engineer you're paid to have the "right" answer, but as a manager you're paid not to be right but to bring all the "right answers" together. That's a subtle but important shift.

zug_zug

a day ago

Weird to have a bit of a window into the cryptic world of directorial promotions. Sounds like it’s mostly about self promotion sadly and perhaps unsurprisingly.

46Bit

21 hours ago

I agree, it's an interesting view. I found it quite positive about the culture in that part of Splunk. The writer parachuted in, threw their weight around, bruised a bunch of people, but lost out to another manager who openly acknowledged the contributions of their people.

mhedgpeth

21 hours ago

From the author of the post: it looks that way at first, but it's honestly about aligning people all around you. The true self promoters don't keep their eye on the ball of universal success.

I think I didn't study the actions of the people enough, a point I was trying to make in the post. If I would have I would have made better decisions.

subpixel

a day ago

All other things aside this author is not a good enough communicator to be a director where I work.

That this is an ad actually makes the grammar issues worse.

mhedgpeth

21 hours ago

From the author: yeah the failures I outlined were ... failures for sure! I'm not in the market for a director position at your company, but if I were I'd hope to find a place wanting people to have an honest assessment of what worked and what didn't and how they grew from it. If that's disqualifying I worry that you'll get people who are lying to you.

I'm sorry it came across as an ad, I'm full-time in a bootstrapped company working to try to solve this problem without any VC funding. It was a problem for me and for many people I know so I thought I'd share it in hopes to help people.

Also the grammar part here is interesting, I purposely write without AI because I think that's important, but I'd love your help in making it better - reach out on LinkedIn if you can. Thanks :)

GOD_Over_Djinn

19 hours ago

Yeah, the writing and overall narrative are lacking. I got to the end of the piece and thought to myself: “wait, that’s it?”

tjolu

5 hours ago

Does it make you happy to be so rude and condescending?

MrDarcy

a day ago

Splunk has been around nearly 20 years. I’d hardly call them a high growth tech company.

firesteelrain

a day ago

Not all certainly but many enterprises use them and it feels like Splunk is printing money. The cost for log ingestion is high. But, it’s highly trusted and other Splunk killers like ELK stacks haven’t caught on everywhere.

mooreds

a day ago

Cisco saw enough value to buy it for $28 B as part of their security portfolio: https://strategyofsecurity.com/p/ciscos-cybersecurity-shoppi...

firesteelrain

a day ago

Right that’s my point. Licenses for log ingestion with Splunk are $$$$. As opposed to rolling your own (and probably not passing an audit)

betaby

a day ago

> and probably not passing an audit

What kind of audit one might not pass? People use all kind of log solution all the time without any problems.

firesteelrain

a day ago

I am really disappointed. On one hand this was settling in as a good lesson learned blog post but ended up looking like the stuff you see on LinkedIn every day wrapped up as an ad.

gafotech

a day ago

Same here. I honestly enjoyed reading it and didn't expect an ad to slap me in the face.

sethammons

a day ago

And what a slap, right out of left field. Drop that one, final paragraph and the post is fantastic.

The paragraph only barely, tangentially links to the conclusion paragraph above it. No lead up or reference in the post. And you are left dazed. I don't even know what this supposed tool would do even slightly. A hard souring of trust built up in the article.

chihuahua

a day ago

Yeah I'm not sure what an onboarding tool is going to do for a guy who gets hired, decides from day 1 that he must be promoted immediately, makes other peoples' lives miserable by showing to his manager that he's "aggressively" doing something before he even understands what's going on, and whines constantly about not being promoted within a few months.

dasil003

a day ago

Yes there is a common theme of not “bringing people along”.

user

a day ago

[deleted]

mooreds

a day ago

Heya, not the author, but I know him. Will share this feedback.

afro88

16 hours ago

> Another Director at Splunk told me his process: he wrote down everything good that his teams did in a doc, and then every Friday sent that out on Slack celebrating their achievements. Implied in the whole exercise was "and I am leading this group of people", but he never said that because he didn't need to. This person got promoted to Sr. Director. He had a process that he regularly followed to a T that was borne out of a deep understanding of the culture around him.

Without knowing this Sr Director, I have to wonder if this is actually the take away they were trying to offer. If a senior engineering manager isn't regularly celebrating their team's wins, being proud if their achievements and recognising the smart and hard work, providing exposure to the rest of the company, then there's something amiss.

If the take away really was "do this and you will make yourself look good for a promotion" then, yuuuuuck.

rhyperior

20 hours ago

Relationships drive business success and recognition. The author seemingly didn’t know how to establish critical relationships as the new kid on the block. Common mistake in the technical world, one I’ve made myself.

nwride

19 hours ago

Just a quick bit of feedback for the author: your website loads really poorly, at least on mobile. All the content loads immediately but the hamburger menu sits over the screen and won't go away until the final 25% is done. It does this for every page I tried. Takes almost a minute.

ajkjk

an hour ago

this person's whole worldview seems really gross. Like they have swallowed the entire framework of growth-oriented capitalism uncritically and reorganized themselves completely around maximizing their returns. Fortunately the world is still somewhat human, so they failed catastrophically---but they're trying. Even their attempt at reflection is a shameful ad.