US Government considering suspending habeas corpus

86 pointsposted 15 hours ago
by intunderflow
(bbc.com)

27 Comments

rayiner

12 hours ago

Article I, Section 9 says:

> The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

I wonder what we can find in the “emanations from penumbras” of the word “invasion.”

UncleMeat

2 hours ago

It is important to understand that the "penumbra" used as part of the justification of Roe expands the liberty of individuals and limits the power of the state. There is further an entire amendment (the 9th) that expressly says that such penumbras exist and that the constitution does not contain an exhaustive list of liberties.

This is wildly different than saying "well, invasion can mean anything so its fascism time."

mindslight

10 hours ago

"They did it first!" is the reasoning of a child.

rayiner

6 hours ago

[flagged]

mindslight

6 hours ago

Except your "two-way street" just runs between two different camps of authoritarians, writing off the criticisms from those of us earnestly interested in individual liberty. Your rationalization is essentially a high-worded version of the bog standard mutual partisanship.

rayiner

4 hours ago

[flagged]

mindslight

4 hours ago

I can't tell how you intend to apply that concept to form an actual argument. It seems like you're just grasping at any straw that might justify continuing to support this anti-American neofascist movement, even as the plain reality keeps on revealing itself.

rayiner

2 hours ago

In a prisoner’s dilemma, you can’t achieve the optimal outcome because each side has a rational incentive to defect to avoid being the one stuck with the worst outcome. Unless you’re planning on restoring the constitutional republic anytime soon, my second choice would be to get the substantive outcomes I want rather than the ones the other side wants.

mindslight

24 minutes ago

So you were merely rephrasing the same "both sides" false dichotomy in terms of yet another abstract concept, to continue rationalizing your support for fascism? If the system of autocratic authoritarianism has merit on its own, then why the need to continually sugar coat it?

At least Yarvin had the guts to advocate for autocracy directly (old Yarvin, that is. before he got corrupted by the taste of power).

user

3 hours ago

[deleted]

gooseus

7 hours ago

Without habeas corpus, laws aren't worth the paper they're written on.

John23832

14 hours ago

There’s really not much to say other than, they really shouldn’t.

jebarker

13 hours ago

A more accurate title would be "Trump Administration considering suspending habeas corpus". As much as they'd like to be they don't encompass the whole US government and, as the article says, the ability to suspend habeas corpus is something Congress can do, not the president or his aide.

yladiz

10 hours ago

The issue is that the president and executive in general don’t have the power to do a lot of things they have, like withhold appropriated money, but they do it anyway and don’t care if the courts reprimand them. So yes, in theory only congress, in practice it only depends on if the executive in general (e.g. FBI) acts as if it is suspended.

dragontamer

13 hours ago

The President suspending habeas corpus means that FBI, ATF, ICE and other agencies no longer act appropriately, as these agencies are directly in control of the President.

Sure, major and powerful agencies aren't "the US Government" in general. (There's still Congress and Courts). But that's still not a force of people you want to be messing with.

Suspending Trump's illegal order immediately should be the priority. Or otherwise preempting it before it gets too far. Commanding entire agencies to suspend parts of the Constitution unilaterally is not going to be good for us.

> the ability to suspend habeas corpus is something Congress can do, not the president or his aide

Congress isn't the group who has police forces and prisons to illegally detain you in. Its the President who owns and controls the police forces and prisons who can issue orders to ignore habeas corpus.

belter

13 hours ago

That is the actual title but posters are forced to change them or they get flagged immediately here.

fakedang

14 hours ago

ICE arrested the Mayor of Newark too. For protesting.

derelicta

14 hours ago

Understandable. The US cannot afford to lose its last colonies in the Middle East and in Asia, thus the need for state terrorism, censorship and indefinite detention of politically-active and class-aware proles.