Ask HN: Has anyone moved away from Mac?

12 pointsposted a day ago
by maineagetter

Item id: 43489726

23 Comments

darreld

17 hours ago

I've been on the Mac since 2001 for my personal machines, with Windows at work and I've had linux installations on and off since late '92. I have decided that I won't replace my aging M1 MBP. I got an used thinkpad and installed Fedora 41. It's really been a stellar distro. I've been in it full time for a couple months now. Since I'm now retired I don't need to have the latest and greatest. Linux is just fine for me and the remaining development work I do. I guess I've always known I'd end up on Linux.

spooneybarger

a day ago

I left several years ago and moved to Windows with WSL. It has worked well for me.

I have tried using Linux as a daily driver but can't. Years ago I used BeOS and then Linux as drivers but my needs expanded.

Issues with Linux... there's software that I need that doesn't have an equivalent that meets my needs on Linux so, I would need to limit my Linux usage to only the other things I need but...

Not all of the games I enjoy from steam work on Linux so at that point. It's Linux only for development.

I need zoom for working with other developers and it is less stable for me on Linux than Windows or Mac.

There's a few minor annoyances with Linux beyond that but...

Some personal software I refuse to move off means no Linux for that.

My favorite video game isn't available for Linux on Steam so, I didn't end up playing games on Linux.

I can do development on Linux except for the zoom problems.

I have Linux machines I can ssh into for doing kernel hacking, otherwise, WSL gives me everything I need for development and I get the rest from the few applications I use on windows.

I find Linux, windows, and macOS all flawed but for me Windows ones are the most acceptable.

I suggest you give Linux a go and see if it works out. Given you mention steam, start by verifying all the games you want are available on Linux.

GianFabien

a day ago

Your experience very clearly highlights the fact that every person has a different collection of requirements and that generic advice is only helpful in pointing general directions and highlighting some non-obvious considerations.

tompark

16 hours ago

I too have been on Mac for over 20 yrs, but day-jobs are sometimes on Windows. Currently I work in Ubuntu under Windows on a Lenovo X1 Carbon. I feel the same about moving away from Mac. Apple's hardware planned obsolescence/deprecation schedule would have been reasonable during the Moore's Law era, but it feels too fast now, so I'm looking at migrating to Linux on Framework laptops. I don't play games much anymore so don't really need Windows.

Linux is fine, it's similar enough to macOS (and Windows, for that matter). For my tastes, all the OSes require some tweaking and compromise. I don't understand the fascination with tiling window mgmt, and disable it everywhere (was surprised it got added to macOS Sequoia). I love having different wallpapers on virtual desktops. Etc etc, there are all sorts of different setup options are available on one platform but not another.

It turns out that my stumbling block is the trackpad and keyboard -- I know this issue is highly specific to each individual, so you may not care about this. I haven't tried them on a Framework laptop but they're both horrible IMO on the Thinkpad. (Other people tell me that I'm crazy and they love the keyboard, so YMMV.) The trackpad feels like plastic crap and responsiveness is subpar. Causing a right-click by pressing slightly right of center is annoying. The page up/down keys in the inverted-T pad get in the way. Even on Mac, I didn't like the era of full size left-right arrows, and bought a couple spare old Mac keyboards that don't have those keys. Thankfully Apple fixed that in more recent designs.

Since I code all day, I'm constantly using the key sequences for copy/paste and search/replace. Maybe with time you can switch your muscle memory for these things, but I think it's simple to do these things on a Mac keyboard and not quite as easy (e.g. ctrl/shift-insert) on Linux/Windows.

However, the issues that you'd run into are most likely going to be different than the ones I did. You're probably just going to have to try it and find out if you like it or not.

__d

a day ago

My daily driver is a 2014 MacBook Pro. It's had a few repairs over the years, but in addition to Apple no longer supporting current macOS for it, I'm starting to feel the performance is impacting my work as well.

I'm still debating a replacement, but Linux on Ryzen is a leading option. I don't like Apple's recent work with macOS, and while the hardware seems to continue to be excellent, I'm not sure that's enough.

I've looked at Framework, Tuxedo, Lenovo ... nothing really looks great though, which is why I haven't made the jump. Yet.

moondev

8 hours ago

Have you considered kicking tires on Linux installed on your MacBook?

I have a 2018 Mac mini running Ubuntu well. It actually dual boots macos as well using the refind bootloader. Refind can be installed and booted from a USB key as well so pretty straightforward to try. Make a empty partition from macos for Linux. Then boot Linux iso and install there. Boot refind and you can select which os to use. The 2018 mini even supports esxi and windows if you want to quad boot

sircastor

14 hours ago

Have you spent any time looking at OpenCore Legacy? I briefly was using it on my 2014 13" MBP to install whatever the latest version-1 was. It worked well for a bit but I ran into an issue after an update. I bailed on it but learned later that it was a relatively easy fix. Might give some new feature support to you.

I really think this era of MBPs was the best. I'm kind of shocked how well my 2014 still works.

I've got a 2010 iMac that my kid uses running Sonoma (macOS 14) via OpenCore Legacy and it works great for him. I'm currently waiting on a wireless card to give him Bluetooth 4 so he can use Airdrop.

__d

11 hours ago

I've looked, but never played (this being my primary personal device, it's not something I want to have out of service).

I guess that's probably also why I feel like this is the wrong solution for me. I don't want to have to deal with issues on this laptop. If I pull a system update, I want it to install without a problem, automatically, overnight, and not require hours of debugging and reverting and then finding a fix a week later.

I appreciate the effort and skill that goes into making it, and if this was a less critical device for me it might well be the right solution.

Also, I agree re: peak MacBook. The keyboard is good, the ports are good, they're tough, and I really can't believe that the performance has been enough for over 10 years. It'll be a sad day when I move on.

GianFabien

a day ago

Apple builds their devices for consumers not developers. With each iteration people are increasingly locked into that ecosystem. And the hardware is designed to be obsolete within 5 years or so.

Laptops in general are built to a price point. Personally, I only find the gaming laptops sufficiently appealing, but the price tags put me off.

Have you considered a desktop / minitower for the bulk of your work? Multiple LCDs are great for productivity. Then a ChromeBook might suffice for on the road use.

__d

11 hours ago

It's funny: there was a time when Apple understood that it could attract customers by making its devices the first choice for developers. And it did a good job, with a real Unix underneath that wasn't overly hidden, with a lot of open source support, and just generally being an ok citizen in the developer world.

That strategy, which I think ran from early OSX through until mid-2010's? worked, and you'd see the results, with a sea of glowing Apple logos, even at Linux conferences.

I think they've changed since then. It feels now like developers are not a priority, even as they've re-added some power-user features in recent years.

As for longevity, I think my current laptop speaks for itself. It's now 11 years old, and going strong. I've carried it around the world, dropped it numerous times, and it's been the best laptop I've every owned. They do artificially force an end-of-life, usually at around 7 years old, for their operating system. I don't really have a problem with that: I appreciate that it's difficult to continue to support old hardware in new releases, and I think that timeframe is reasonable. I'd prefer that it was explicitly stated, and I'd prefer it was longer, but ... it's not bad, really.

Over the years I have had many devices: desktop PCs, Unix workstations, Linux workstations, and laptops from 6" to 17". In the early 2000s I bought a 12" Powerbook, which was my first Mac -- the motivation was to get seamless Microsoft Office document support on a Unix system, and it did a fine job of that. Eventually I spilled water on it, and replaced it with a 13" unibody MacBook, which I later upgraded to the current 15" MacBook Pro.

I currently have a work-supplied dual Xeon 56 core, 192GB RAM, 8TB SSD monster Dell with 2x27" screens on my desk which is used for my day job compiling a large proprietary C++ application. That's the right kind of machine for that job, and I wouldn't do it on a laptop by choice.

But for my personal stuff, while I'd previously set up my laptops as a secondary device to be used when travelling, when I got the 2014 MBP, I deliberately upgraded to the 15" screen, maxed out the CPU, and got a big SSD so I could make it my primary device. And that's been a model I have liked a lot.

I don't travel anywhere near as much these days, and could probably revert to a desktop instead and just access that remotely via Tailscale when I travel, but ... I like having everything in the device in my hand.

But it's a good point: I should probably reconsider.

skydhash

18 hours ago

I bought a MBA M1 in 2021 (replacing a 2015 MBP) and it's really a nice machine, but the OS is not as nice. I'm running Fedora Silverblue on 2 other computers and while Gnome is not as polished, the whole ecosystem actually let you adapt it to your workflow, which macOS does not.

I don't really use a lot of pro software for non-programming tasks, so I don't miss them. Flatpak and GTK based applications are more than OK for the majority of tasks I have to do. And for the rest, it's easy to write some scripts. The main pros for me were no annoyances from corporate headquarters (pushing whatever services) and sensible configuration choices.

firefax

20 hours ago

The first time I tried, despite thinking I'd done my research I had so many issues with basic things like wifi I gave up, but that was like 10+ years ago.

I think for my phone, I'd still prefer iOS -- I think the lack of freedom can be a form of protection, in terms of maleware.

My next laptop will probably be a Linux laptop -- I'm thinking Debian or Xubuntu. (I like XFCE, aesthetically and in terms of resource cost.)

If anyone has suggestions, I'm basically looking to just do music/movie streamin and light text editing -- maybe fire up a Parrot VM to run some tests. Battery life is more important to me than processor/ram.

GianFabien

a day ago

I stopped using my 2009 MBP in 2021. It had three batteries and a HD to SSD upgrade by that time. For heavy lifting I have been using a Debian minitower with 3 LCDs since 2017. I do 90% of my work on the minitower. For on the road use, I have a Lenovo ChromeBook.

I'm not a gamer, but for development Debian Linux is absolutely perfect. Having multiple screens allows me to have reference information a mere glance away.

I have toyed with other people's recent Macs and I find that with each upgrade Apple increasingly locks you into their ecosystem and ways of working.

I am not a fan of extended use of laptops. By sitting so close to the LCD you end up with myopia and other eye aliments.

timeon

a day ago

> I have toyed with other people's recent Macs and I find that with each upgrade Apple increasingly locks you into their ecosystem and ways of working.

So I now need to ask macOS for permission to open certain apps after every update - and that is not one click process. Before that it was just 'right click and open' so I expect that at some point I would not be able open them at all. But even current situation is not acceptable. Once this mbp dies I will move to Linux - I'm not gamer and there is 1 app I need to figure out alternative for. I already had to make sacrifices with apps when moved from Windows years ago - so I'm ready for that.

ActorNightly

a day ago

The only macs I used were work issued ones, and all of them have been terrible. I can't imagine spending your own money on those. I went through 5 in a 4 year period, through no fault of my own.

At home I was Linux for the longest time, running VFIO passthrough to a windows VM. Once WSL2 got released, Im fully on Windows. WSL2 does everything I need in terms of Linux, so now I pretty much have the best possible setup since I can run any software. Pytorch with GPUs within WSL2 works great as well.

You do have to get Windows Pro though to be able to disable a bunch of stuff, but once you do its a pretty smooth experience.

seanmcdirmid

a day ago

I’ve been on some Mac or another for 20+ years now, and just upgraded to a refurbished M3 Max for LLM experimentation. I just don’t see the appeal for me of going to windows, although Linux is always possible if we get some decent affordable unified memory boxes from nvidia (eg digits). Macs keep killing on performance/watt though, I wish someone would compete with Apple more aggressively.

Note I don’t really use any Mac apps (well, just apps that are available on other platforms, like vscode, chrome), so that wouldn’t stop me from switching.

firefax

20 hours ago

Libreoffice is really useful, paired with GIMP it can make switching much simpler since word processing and light image editing (cropping, resizing, redacting PII) is easily done without a photoshop subscription.

gobins

a day ago

My mac of 13 years is running fine..except I am unable to update the OS because Apple has set limitations on the upgrading OS with old hardware. I will probably end up buying a new mac until I can see a good Linux ecosystem.

A friend who is also in the same situation is however going to Surface Pros. He swears its on par with Mac on hardware.

devilsdata

a day ago

Not moving away from Mac, I still have my Mac and love it.

But I've installed Bluefin-dx on my gaming PC and work laptop. I love it. It's similar enough to Mac OS and really solid.

mindcrash

15 hours ago

If you ask me: A recent Ryzen based Framework laptop with Linux is pretty damn sweet....

UK-AL

17 hours ago

As a pure dev i just use Linux now. With proton for the odd game.

paulcole

14 hours ago

I've moved away from MacOS for everything but work.

At home I'm 100% iPadOS and iPhoneOS (also have a Kindle that I use daily). When I'm not at work I've been able to eliminate all "computer" use.

There was an adjustment period when I'd use my partner's MacBook Pro for a few random things. The last thing I remember doing on one was my taxes in 2023. But past 2 years now I just did them on the iPad and it was fine.

It's been great.

deafpolygon

a day ago

I have not moved away from Mac; instead, I've been slowly moving towards it with an eye to replacing Win11 with Linux. The amount of data leaking from Win11 is mind-boggling. While I'm aware macOS does too, Apple is just a little bit more transparent about it.