hackernews client

How We Got the Lithium-Ion Battery

83 pointsposted a year ago

28 Comments

heresie-dabord

a year ago

> Exxon was concerned that oil supply might peak in the next few decades, and was funding research on a wide variety of alternative energy technologies that might replace it.

But later in the 21st century, transnational petroleum interests simply decided to change the leadership of any government that attempted to pass radical legislation that might reduce pollution and dependence on petroleum.

leptons

a year ago

You can't really blame the mega-corporations without also blaming the people that voted for a government that's promised deregulation, "drill baby drill", mass deportation, tariff wars, government dysfunction through mass layoffs, and general chaos that will only favor the rich. I have to wonder what they really thought they were voting for and if it's going to be worth the high cost.

heresie-dabord

a year ago

> You can't really blame the mega-corporations without also blaming the people that voted for kakistocracy

In the context of what democracy ought to mean, you are of course correct.

In the context of who now really operates the levers using historically unprecedented stockpiles of cash, I think the notion of blaming the voter is a quaint allusion to a bygone era (of democracy).

leptons

a year ago

We saw Muslims voting based on their desire to reduce weapons to Israel, that completely didn't understand that giving the right-wing power would mean giving even more weapons to Israel - they voted completely opposite to their interests, because ???? "Maybe he'll listen to us and stop weapons to Israel" ???? - it's completely laughable. I've never seen such a backwards and dysfunctional reaction to 4 years of relatively good government. This wasn't about electing a government, it was about ignoring reality, believing obvious lies, a lot of misogyny, racism, as well as a lot of apathy. The decision wasn't even difficult, the differences between the choices were incredibly stark. Corporations didn't really have much to do with this stuff, people made up their own stupid minds about who was the best choice, and they chose wrong. Soon enough they'll all be wondering why the leopards ate their faces.

quietbritishjim

a year ago

Please don't start flame wars here. The earlier discussion was at least tangentially related to batteries.

r00fus

a year ago

Well how much oil lobbying paid for that? especially when same oil lobbying is funded by subsidies?

gregw2

a year ago

This article leaves out a lot of history of the lithium-ion batteries -- there were tons of companies using them in the late 80s and early 90s.

I ported software for testing them under various temperatures for use in down-hole horizontal drilling equipment in the late 80s. When looking up my old company when writing this post, I ran across the following list of hundreds of companies getting permission to transport them (hazardous back then too!) in 1991 from the DOT, and a 1973 technical report from the US Army on appropriate lithium ion battery testing procedures, which seems earlier than much of the research discussed in this article: https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/hazmat/documents/offer/SP7052.pdf/...

Related research from 1993: https://colab.ws/articles/10.1016%2F0378-7753%2893%2980023-i

From 1984: https://colab.ws/articles/10.1149%2F1.2115957

ggm

a year ago

I would argue a dynamic tension between IPR exploiters investing and state funded public interest had helped. It depends on time, cost and difficulty, with breakthroughs in both domains.

xutopia

a year ago

What a nice read and I love the conclusion! So often it's really hard to know why something will make it big but with hindsight so easy to understand why it did.

phtrivier

a year ago

The most instructive (how much research has zig zagged) and depressing (how far we still are from what we needed yesterdecade) reading.

webwielder2

a year ago

Invented by Ford and Exxon. Can’t make it up.

akira2501

a year ago

At the time Ford was looking to build EVs, and all manufacturers were trying insane things leading into the 1970s, where an oil production crisis severely impacted American drivers. Chrysler made a turbine car that could run on either Jet Fuel or Soybean Oil, some of these are still driving, and are amazing in their own right.

Exxon responded to the 1970s by recognizing that data was going to be a huge part of the world going forward. I'm guessing their early experiences with what was "big data" at the time to do oil field exploration clued them into what was about to happen.

Then the 1980s happened with massive shifts in geopolitical borders and in the energy sector in particular so both companies got cold feet on these long shots that previously seemed existential to their futures. This isn't a particularly surprising story.

rasz

a year ago

Its pretty crazy that Exxon tried to be Intel and IBM at the same time. Bought Zilog and was making PCs for a hot minute there.

Schlumberger was another one, tried their luck with Fairchild.

decatur

a year ago

> has fallen by more than 97% per kilowatt-hour

So how much did it fall per MWh?

epistasis

a year ago

You're not going to believe this, but they have also fallen by 97% per MWh.

_ea1k

a year ago

Unbelievably, it was also 97% by GWh!

JumpCrisscross

a year ago

Yes and no. On a spherical cow, units convert without cost. In the real world, someone ordering GW-hours of batteries is buying differently from someone buying W-hours. The prices of batteries at various scales have moved differently, with small batteries having become cheaper faster than big ones.

usrusr

a year ago

Even more: in the old days, any buyer slurping up production by the MWh would have noticeably tipped the balance of supply and demand.

akamaka

a year ago

By the pound, they’re 99.1% cheaper.

syncsynchalt

a year ago

How much cheaper by the dollar, then?

user

a year ago

[deleted]

user

a year ago

[deleted]

oulipo

a year ago

Small self-plug: we're engineers / designers from France who built a repairable and fireproof e-bike li-ion battery! If you're interested in the concept, we're looking for resellers everywhere! Check it at https://get.gouach.com

beAbU

a year ago

Why is this always the top voted comment on any battery related post?

camkego

a year ago

No relationship. But this is a big deal if it is real. NYC fire department is dealing with a lot e-bike fires. I’m sure most of the issues are at the low end of the market. But even improvements in safety and fire risk reduction at the top of the market are a big deal.