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bradley13

9 hours ago

Many European politicians are in denial. They fail to listen to their electorate, so the voters choose someone else.

Look at Germany, for example, where the old parties are desperately hanging onto power, in the face of surging AfD popularity. Or France, using lawfare against LePen.

Actually accepting democratic results? The voters don't like our policies, so we'll yield gracefully? Doesn't seem to be an option.

wkat4242

10 hours ago

I wonder if it's really TikTok to blame here. In many other countries the extreme right is also rising. Even in my home country :( This goes deeper than TikTok or even social media.

xenospn

10 hours ago

You don’t think the rise in populist politics coincides with the rise of TikTok? It is a global app, after all.

wkat4242

9 hours ago

No not really. Not TikTok specifically. More social media in general.

Social media algorithms prioritise engagement and anger is a big driver for engagement. So it tends to serve polarising content that people get worked up about. Then they stay active on the platform and see more ads.

Social media is also a platform for Russian troll farms of course. Much more so than traditional media.

And there's factors unrelated to social media too. We're constantly in crises these days. This gets on people's nerves and the extreme right has an 'easy out' by denying these problems (eg climate change) or blaming it all on immigrants (eg jobs, housing issues).

But singling TikTok out overlooks the wider problem IMO.

protomolecule

8 hours ago

>Social media is also a platform for Russian troll farms of course.

You meant American, right?

"By 2010, the military began using social media tools, leveraging phony accounts to spread messages of sympathetic local voices – themselves often secretly paid by the United States government. As time passed, a growing web of military and intelligence contractors built online news websites to pump U.S.-approved narratives into foreign countries. Today, the military employs a sprawling ecosystem of social media influencers, front groups and covertly placed digital advertisements to influence overseas audiences, according to current and former military officials.

...

Nevertheless, the Pentagon’s clandestine propaganda efforts are set to continue. In an unclassified strategy document last year, top Pentagon generals wrote that the U.S. military could undermine adversaries such as China and Russia using “disinformation spread across social media, false narratives disguised as news, and similar subversive activities [to] weaken societal trust by undermining the foundations of government.”

And in February, the contractor that worked on the anti-vax campaign – General Dynamics IT – won a $493 million contract. Its mission: to continue providing clandestine influence services for the military."[0]

[0] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-covi...

wkat4242

7 hours ago

I wouldn't be surprised if America does it too but in this case Russia has a clear interest in promoting this particular candidate in Romania and America doesn't. Because it's a move to peel them away from NATO.

And Russian troll farms are also well documented. It's really a big part of their MO.

protomolecule

3 hours ago

What do you mean by "wouldn't be surprised if America does it too"? Reuter's investigation leaves you in doubt?

>"Russian troll farms are also well documented"

Their effect is blown way out of proportion by Western media.

wkat4242

3 hours ago

I didn't have time to read the link. But it's just irrelevant in this case. The US wouldn't manipulate to get this candidate in play because it's the worst possible outcome for them.

And tbh I doubt Romania would do this, as they're the other party in this, the US doesn't really have much to do with this. Romania doesn't really have the resources for troll farms. And they also wouldn't benefit this candidate.

protomolecule

3 hours ago

It's worth the read. I've lost some of my illusions about the US while reading it.

This whole thread is about the perceived rise of 'populist politics' in 'many other countries', isn't it? Of course the US won't support pro-Russia populist in Romania. The US supports anti-Putin populists in Russia and anti-Russia and anti-China populists in other countries.

mytailorisrich

9 hours ago

Not sure what you exactly mean by "populist politics" but in Europe the political landscape and its evolution is not caused by Tiktok or social media, it's caused by events and governments' policies over the last 60 years.

Specifically regarding Tiktok: It appeared in 2016, so is extremely recent and all the political forces in Europe predate it by far. 2016 is also the date of the Brexit referendum and Trump's first election so can't be "blamed' for either.

Regarding the EU I think what has been happening over the years is that the EU has been taking bigger and bigger steps to control speech and member states' politics, which is a worrying trend.

bradley13

8 hours ago

This. There are actually two things that the EU is pushing, that the populace does not want.

One is regulating speech. I'm familiar with both the UK and Germany: in both, you can go to jail for insulting people, especially if the person you insult is a politician. They are expanding this to include ever milder insults, and ever more forms of speech. Absolutely dystopian.

The other is unregulated immigration. All of Europe is being flooded by young men from Northern Africa and the Middle East. Uneducated, unskilled, and often criminal. Yet the governments refuse to kick them out, or to prevent ever more from arriving.

The latter, immigration, is the single biggest factor driving the emergence of the far right.

protomolecule

8 hours ago

>The latter, immigration, is the single biggest factor driving the emergence of the far right.

That's ironic that Merkel tried to whitewash Germany's image as a former Nazi country by accepting millions of immigrants from Middle East and Africa, but also caused the rise German nationalists which is looked at with unease.

mytailorisrich

8 hours ago

I think Merkel will go down in history has having made several catastrophic strategic mistakes, from nuclear to Russia to her response to the 2015 crisis in the Middle East (which may have titled the balance in the 2016 Brexit referendum, though it is unclear whether that is good or bad for Germany).

protomolecule

8 hours ago

Yes, dropping Germany's opposition[0] to further NATO expansion under Bush's pressure[1] during the 2008 NATO summit in Bucharest was a catastrophic mistake.

[0] http://www.summitbucharest.gov.ro/en/doc_160.html

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Little-War-That-Shook-World/dp/023061...