Europe's Internet resilience mitigates impact of submarine cable cuts

149 pointsposted 3 days ago
by hampus

35 Comments

anonymousDan

3 days ago

One important question that I'm unclear on is how long it takes to fix one of these cables. If it takes months then that is quite a wide window in which an attacker could incrementally take down cables.

PhasmaFelis

2 days ago

In this particular case, it seems like the attackers were trying for plausible deniability (making it look like an accident with an anchor). A comprehensive series of "accidents" wouldn't fit that goal.

(And if they decide they don't care about plausible deniability, they could use sub-deployed timed mines to take out every cable at once.)

alisonatwork

2 days ago

Even if these "accidents" are a state sponsored (or at least condoned) action, it seems certain states have realized they can happen over and over again without consequences[0].

The frustrating part of this kind of petty tactic is that bullies can do just enough to annoy and inconvenience their targets, while never quite doing enough to make it worth expending the political capital to hold them to account. From the bully's perspective there's no downside. And if legitimate accidents or rogue actions get portrayed as deliberate then all the better - that just reinforces the bully's reputation as an actor to be feared while further eroding trust in the international institutions that may one day challenge it.

[0] https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/5677668

tirant

2 days ago

Wouldn’t the ship insurance company be responsible for the costs?

At some point insurers are going to increase their costs to these Chinese companies to the point that sabotage does not become viable anymore.

lotsofpulp

2 days ago

Hence the solution of needing a bigger bully on your side.

chgs

2 days ago

And then once they are fixed take them out again

JumpCrisscross

2 days ago

> once they are fixed take them out again

In an actual war, you hit the repair equipment and personnel [1].

(As to the Geneva Conventions note, we're discussing a hypothetical war with Russia. The status quo, including rules of war, are going to be rewritten by the victors.)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_tap_strike

chgs

2 days ago

If you are planting one cutting device (small bomb etc), you could do the same thing 10 miles down the line and blast it again without having to revisit the area.

amelius

2 days ago

They could even blow up all cables at once. Maybe the explosives have already been placed.

tuyiown

2 days ago

With timers ? because undersea communication is not as solved problem AFAIK

amelius

a day ago

The communication does not have to be fast, so they could use extremely low frequency signals, which apparently can travel over hundreds to thousands of miles in seawater. On top of that, they could build a mesh network.

mcfedr

2 days ago

Certainly worth blowing up some russian ships to make sure it doesn't happen again

oniony

2 days ago

How would blowing up Russian ships stop Chinese ships doing it again?

timbit42

2 days ago

Just the ones with Russian captains.

booi

2 days ago

Generally it can be fixed in days. They raise it from the sea floor and splice in a new cable section.

scheme271

2 days ago

True but ships and crews with the equipment to do the repairs are limited. It's possible to overwhelm the repair capacities. Also, it takes time to physically travel between cuts so while cuts in the Baltic might take a week or two to fix, a cut in the Atlantic and one in the Baltic may take a week or two just for travel.

shmerl

2 days ago

If someone will try to overwhelm the repair capacities for integral communications, they'll be dealt with like pirates - simply sunk and be done with.

LtWorf

2 days ago

As if they know which ship did this…

shmerl

2 days ago

They already know. The captain will probably end up in prison for a long time, and company which owns the ship will pay for the deliberate damage. Would be good too if they can crack who from the crew works for Russian saboteurs besides the captain. Unlikely it's just one person.

mistyvales

2 days ago

Crazy that you can splice optical cable..

UltraSane

2 days ago

They actually have very cool devices that will automatically align and fuse two fibers and estimate the loss of the bond.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP_C0XLLyR0

ahnick

2 days ago

how much do one of those bad boys cost?

UltraSane

2 days ago

The cheapest ones are surprisingly cheap at less than $1,000 and the highest end ones are $10,000

dgfitz

2 days ago

I mean… they get terminated somehow, right?

dmoy

2 days ago

True, but splicing without leaving behind a powered repeater is different from the final termination with active electronics on the end.

It's pretty cool tech

dgfitz

2 days ago

I’m saying you can terminate cleanly without needing a repeater.

To be clear, I’m saying to terminate each end of the cut cable to a terminating device that continues the flow of light, not just the termination at the beginning/end of the line. Sorry if that wasn’t obvious.

timbit42

2 days ago

Why is it crazy? It's been done since there has been optical cable.

lxgr

2 days ago

Shhh, or somebody will realize how much slack there is in the system (for very good reasons, as evidenced here) and "optimize" it away...

jmward01

2 days ago

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Slack took up 50% of the bandwidth on those cables considering how many notifications and channels I alone get spammed with from work.

lexlambda

3 days ago

Can anyone explain why there wasn't any BGP activity on the Finland-Germany systems when the cable broke, while for Lithuania there was a massive spike?

Unfortunately it's been a long time since I learned about BGP, if anyone could help out here I'd be grateful.

wmf

2 days ago

Each BGP hop represents an ISP so when an ISP reroutes traffic internally there's no need for changes to external BGP announcements. Clearly ISPs in the Baltic region have multiple paths and don't depend on any one cable.

ikekkdcjkfke

2 days ago

Exactly what the internet was built for!