How dermatology became the 'it' job in medicine

33 pointsposted 7 hours ago
by bookofjoe

30 Comments

sharadov

3 minutes ago

I had a similar experience - The dermatologist that I used to see moved to a new city and I needed to see one urgently for eczema. Primarily, I needed an RX.

For at least two months, no appointments were available with any derm in my network, so I immediately set up a telehealth appointment with one in another state, explained the condition, and got an RX on the same day.

NameError

5 hours ago

When my primary care doc referred me to a dermatologist for a suspicious mole, I could not find an actual dermatologist who would see me in less than ~8 months. I ended up seeing a physician's assistant, which I'm still uneasy about since there's been a study that shows that PA's seem to have a lower success rate vs. doctors [1], and the educational requirements are very different for PAs.

As a layperson, it seems like we (patients / society) would benefit from having more doctors, i.e. opening up more residency slots and admitting more people to med school, but there's probably a lot I don't understand about the issue. Not sure if it's a lack of political willpower to do this, or if there are other reasons why the number of doctors we train is so restricted.

[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29710082/ ("PAs performed more skin biopsies per case of skin cancer diagnosed and diagnosed fewer melanomas in situ, suggesting that the diagnostic accuracy of PAs may be lower than that of dermatologists")

f6v

6 hours ago

Tried getting an appointment in Denmark. “We don’t take any new patients”. A familiar story when trying to reach many specialists in European countries (Germany, Belgium). Except I doubt they’re getting 500k.

jjice

5 hours ago

Anecdotal, but I'm in the North East US and I called, and I'm not joking, nine primary care offices. Eight of them said they couldn't take anymore patients, and one said I could get an appointment six months later.

I hadn't needed to go to a primary care doctor in my adult life, but it was mind blowing that this was the case. Many friends of mine have had the same experience.

jonhohle

5 hours ago

At least in my area, huge medical groups or insurance companies have bought nearly all primary care practices. They’ve cut costs and raised prices and it’s virtually impossible to see an MD for an acute medical condition. All procedures need to be scheduled out months now.

It reminds me of what some Canadian friends described their healthcare system being like 20 years ago. If we’re paying more and getting the same service, I’m not sure there’s much reason not to socialize healthcare now (health care, not insurance).

While getting less service, as a marketplace insurance purchaser my premiums are doubling next year. It’s still “cheap”, but that would be a significant shock for most families.

bookofjoe

5 hours ago

In mid-2023 I decided it would be good to have a primary care doctor since I was 74 years old at the time and hadn't been to a doctor in decades.

Full disclosure: I am a retired board-certified anesthesiologist.

I asked around town (Charlottesville, Virginia) and got two names from doctors I trust.

The first was not taking new patients; the second was, so I made an appointment: first available appointment was January 2025 (i.e., in 18 months). I happily took it.

I figured maybe this was a way of triaging old people like myself: if we're forced to wait long enough before being seen, maybe we'll die in the meantime so slots will open up.

cg5280

5 hours ago

Had the same thing in the Midwest about 8 months ago. Had to call a half dozen offices before one would take me and appointments had to be scheduled long in advance. I had not been to the doctor as an adult either and was quickly surprised by how frustrating healthcare is.

nerdponx

5 hours ago

Primary care has the opposite problem right now. Practices are closing faster than new ones are opening, and doctors are leaving the profession faster than new doctors are joining. There is an actual shortage of primary care docs.

parpfish

5 hours ago

I laugh to myself whenever I read some disclaimer that says “ask your doctor” because… how? I’m supposed to call the office, wait six to nine months, and then ask about a mild health concern I had that’s long past?

Workaccount2

5 hours ago

I had this experience when shopping for a highly rated doctor. Luckily I was able to get in on a great doctor after a few weeks of casually calling around, and now can get appointments no problem.

When I was younger on crap insurance, I was able to quickly find one by having no standards other than "be a medical physician". And the doctor I went to was definitely lower rung.

soco

5 hours ago

At least in Switzerland it's like this: if you call directly the dermatologist (or just any medical specialist), they offer you a slot in 6 months. If you go over your house doctor (whatever the term is in your country) you get it in 1-2 weeks. If you are already known patient to said dermatologist, maybe even earlier. Thus: how about you try your house doctor?

shdh

5 hours ago

Guessing you also need a referral to see a specialist in Denmark?

In USA, with PPO insurance, you can see specialists without a referral. Direct specialist appointments without seeing your primary doctor for a referral.

paulddraper

5 hours ago

No, it's not a matter of referral.

It's a matter of "current patients have filled the schedule indefinitely."

kittikitti

5 hours ago

Isn't this disconnected from the reality of medical school competitiveness that is, at least on paper, supposed to filter students who are not going to use their highly sought after education and resources for largely clerical jobs? What's the point of the American Medical Association restricting new medical schools and artificially constricting the number of medical students when the top of their field is to service patients with elective treatments?

nradov

2 hours ago

The AMA has no power to restrict new medical schools or restrict the number of medical students. They aren't an accreditation or licensing agency. Several new medical schools have opened in the past few years.

https://lcme.org/directory/accredited-u-s-programs/

At one point the AMA did lobby Congress to restrict the number of residency slots but they long since reversed that position and now lobby for an expansion.

https://savegme.org/

amluto

6 hours ago

> Recently, her hospital’s dermatology program received more than 600 applications for four residency slots.

Perhaps if supply of dermatologists was not so strongly limited, prices and wait times would improve.

wyldfire

6 hours ago

I doubt that limit is an artificial one. Hospitals don't need 600 dermatologists on staff. I think this is yet another factor of capitalism: selfish interests of individual corporations being in tension with the people's interests of having affordable healthcare. Other developed countries seem to have said "yeah, we recognize that nationalizing healthcare will result in insurance companies and hospitals making less money. But that's what has to happen for the people to be able to get the care they need."

Every time it comes up in the US, nationalized healthcare is demonized in some media. But it just feels like a facade perpetrated by the hospitals and insurance companies (and now private equity) who stand to lose the most. If it's good enough for veterans and retirees, why can't it be good enough for the rest of us? Maybe it's because when the government pays the bill, they don't just roll over and accept $EXORBITANT_FEE after $EXORBITANT_FEE - they negotiate and get some reasonable value.

alistairSH

5 hours ago

There is absolutely an artificial cap on the number of residencies (across specialties, not unique to dermatology). The majority of residency slot are funded through Medicare - Congress has effectively placed an artificial cap on the number of spots.

From what I gather, Congress set the current low limit due to lobbying from the AMA something like 30 years ago. The AMA has since changed its tune and wants more slots to alleviate shortages in some regions and specialties, but the funding has not materialized.

eppp

6 hours ago

They dont need 600 dermatologists on staff. They need residency slots. These people aren't asking to work for the hospital permanently, they just have to check the residency box that is artificially limited by gatekeepers.

Cumpiler69

6 hours ago

>Other developed countries seem to have said

The other developed countries doing this don't pay dermatologists 500k though.

infecto

6 hours ago

I am not sure how you connect the first part of your idea to the last.

Would this not also be a problem in single payer systems? The article does not do a great job of it but it would be interesting to see the billings split between cosmetic and medical. The article is already on how the field is booming because of cosmetics, one of the interviewed doctors does not even accept insurance. This has nothing to do with capitalism vs socialized healthcare and all to do with cosmetic procedures which would mostly not be covered under a single payer style system anyway.

paulddraper

5 hours ago

> Hospitals don't need 600 dermatologists on staff.

But imagine how available and inexpensive dermatologists would be.

(Okay, let's not say 600, but let's say 2x or 4x the current #)

readthenotes1

6 hours ago

Apparently cosmetic dermatology is not regulated so you can go through residency in some other residency program and set up your shingle selling Botox, at least where I live.

pc86

5 hours ago

My wife is a physician and she knows one or two otherwise very intelligent, well-respected, skilled surgeons who just do Botox because it's more lucrative.

red-iron-pine

5 hours ago

seems like that's been the trend -- a lot of those set up around here, it seems. like, I can think of three off the top of my head, and I don't recall seeing em 3+ years ago.

quantumwoke

5 hours ago

The problem is not limited supply but rather the ability to train sufficient supply in a reasonable timeframe which necessitates attending pay cuts (because they can't do as much work) and creation of funded structured training programs with good teachers and case mix. Source: my wife is a doctor

scld

5 hours ago

Increasing the time and cost of the training is how the supply is limited.

throwawaysleep

5 hours ago

In general, there seems to be a trend towards lifestyle jobs, i.e. jobs that fit a certain lifestyle rather than being passions.