Whats your solution then, when Taiwan falls to China tomorrow and the chips stop flowing in? The parasite execs are a problem, but a much smaller problem than if the Chinese blocks flow of essential chips. It will cause all kinds of cascading issues. Which we saw when supply chains from there, all shutdown during Covid.

> against our will

Let's not push that one too far, there is no "little guy" in these deals.

What does surprise me more is that we don't see "tax credits" in "pay your tax in shares". The amount would be higher then, probably - but many of these deals would in the end be profitable.

"… after the same people squandered … decades prior"

The same people? Decades later?

OR perhaps is new, younger people with better ideas who just happen to work at the same company?

It's entirely possible for the government to pressure the corporations in the chip industry to move resources into research, development and manufacturing capacity.

What the government would have to do is increase corporate taxes and capital gains taxes but give various writeoffs and rebates for R & D and new factories. Essentially the government tells the corporation, "you can pay us this tax money, or you can put the money back into R & D and production starts, it's up to you."

This would probably upset the Milton Friedman neoliberalism proponents, but they've made a mess of things IMO. Regardless the shareholders and executives would have to take significant losses relative to their present situation under such new conditions. The money has to come from somewhere and fabs are expensive complicated beasts with demanding supply chain issues.

> after the same people squandered the time and gutted the American economy and shipped it all overseas for decades prior

What same people? The ones who messed up US chips are Intel and the article doesn't show them getting any money. Theoretical neoliberals aren't really relevant here. China did not take the chip fab business - this isn't a deindustrialization issue.

(I believe deindustrialization was mostly Volcker and the 70s oil shock though, not the neoliberals.)

> I can’t tell you how many people have become extremely wealthy from nothing

Not to be rude, but you haven't told us that, that is true. The most important thing to remember here is that economic populism is wrong and you should never believe anything you hear like this because it's probably just made up.

Also, grocery prices are fine.

The drive voltage of a modern desktop or server CPU is about 1V. Which means there's up to 300-400A flowing through through the motherboard and the pin sockets from the VRM to the CPU. Pretty crazy numbers!

(1V drop, though should be easy to measure. A badly noisy ADC would be at about 10mV. High-precision in analog starts at 10s of uV)

Basically any electroplating tank uses <5V, no matter how large it is. So are basically all line-level audio and most dynamic speaker drive signals: 5V at 4Ω is 6 watts, which is a fairly loud speaker.

Detecting 1-volt voltage drops is not at all difficult; that's enough to turn on any BJT, and any random opamp can measure voltage differences down to millivolts, often nanovolts. https://www.diodes.com/assets/Datasheets/AS321.pdf is a 50¢ random opamp, the one Digi-Key has the most in stock of at the moment; its offset voltage is specified as 5 millivolts max, but of course it can measure much smaller voltages than that if you null out the offset with a trimpot, or if you just don't care about it.

This is not Arduino's strong point, but it doesn't have any difficulty with that task either. The ADC in the ATMega328P used in most Arduinos has a resolution of about a millivolt when referenced to its internal bandgap https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/Atmel-7810-..., and it also has an analog comparator with a maximum offset voltage specified as 40 millivolts. And any random cheap-shit multimeter can measure down to a millivolt or so. And, from the discussion above about audio line levels, it should be obvious that just about any dynamic speaker, and most headphones, can easily make millivolt-level signals audible.

Maybe you meant "detecting voltage drops in analog of <1 microvolt can be challenging".

Rebalanced local production isn't necessarily a rejection of globalization.

It is ridiculous to have a military, for example, depend upon supplies which may be cut off during conflict.

It is also ridiculous to have your entire economy dependent upon foreign powers which seek to subvert and destabilize you.

The US and most of the West undertook plans to "uplift" countries such as China in the 70s. The thought was that by opening up trade, prosperity would follow, a middle class would follow, an upper class, and democratic principles might follow.

This had not entirely failed, but at the same time that experiment has been taken too far, especially during the current climate.

Most specifically, China's refusal to sign on to a key, pivotal aspect of access to western markets, IP, eg copyright and patent law, means that their access to these markets is slowly being withdrawn.

What we granted 50 years ago, open, mostly tariff free access to our markets is being taken away, removed as conditions for that access are not being respected.

Only China is to blame for this. The rampant IP theft, the lack of respect for the collective market's rules, the flagrant and egregious espionage, have resulted in this fate.

The West will still trade with anyone that follows such common market principles. The West is not closing down international trade. The West is instead ensuring that when we completely cut off China, and its lack of regard for our common market rules, that we are not harmed.

Thinking this is all about a reduction in trade is wrong.

None of this new, or a surprise to anyone paying attention to geopolitical issues during the last 50 years. When the markets opened, when tariffs were dropped, China was told the rules for that access.

In the ensuing decades, attempts to negotiate and work with China over IP issues have seen zero progress.

We offer access with open hands under specific terms. We happily wanted to engage in profitable business ventures. China, its leadership perhaps thinking it is clever and somehow tricking us, did not realize that the West is very open, forgiving, and willing to discuss a lot prior to hitting an impasse. We believe in democratic principles after all, and try to negotiate.

But now that this next segment of the process has started, China has effectively shot itself in the foot. Like a noisy person repeatedly warned in a movie theater, it is being shown the door.

Access to our market is being withdrawn for China.

Expect this to hit the next level in perhaps 5 years, where all imports hit heavy tariffs... after we've ensured our stability in key areas.

Gradual increases in Chinese import tariffs will ensure local businesses spring up, replacing what will become more expensive Chinese alternatives.

It will be an economic boom for the West.

I’m just stupid, what’s on the wall?

My understanding is that Micron only does R&D in Boise, they don't run any production manufacturing there.

What makes Boise a more readily available target for China?

Which CPC affiliates?

My hunch is something like NAFTA -> USMCA would happen with CHIPS. Repeal and replace with basically the same to make it look like a GOP win.

>The CHIPS act is a huge Biden policy win so you can bet the GOP will want to repeal it.

It does seem like politics at the presidency now is less about what you'll do and more about undoing everything the other side did during their time in office, regardless of utility or popularity of what it is.

Is it me or is this worse now? Had it always been like that and I'm just now seeing it?

Here was his statement:

https://youtu.be/hzwQXL77VVA?t=64

> The CHIPS act is a huge Biden policy win

I'm a huge fan of the CHIPS Act, but most Americans have not heard of it [0].

That lack of noteriety is what protects it.

Doesn't hurt that most deal flow is in purple districts, so most shit-slingers tend to be far removed and shut up pretty quickly after a quick rebuke from Party Chairs about how close the election is.

[0] - https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000018f-3fe4-dc61-adff-7fe53...

Trump's tariffs were aimed at a lot of goods, but not chips. The push and subsequent law to get chip manufacturing back into the US was entirely a Biden project.

> Wasn't it Trump who popularized the pullback of Chip manufacturing to the US for security ad prosperity reasons.

And how's that Foxconn factory going?

* https://www.reuters.com/business/foxconn-sharply-scales-back...

Nah, it wasn't him.

No

The Affordable Care Act came with a lot of baggage (as similar plans had been advocated for decades by various proponents), and President Obama was arrogant and dismissive of any need for Republican buy-in (telling them they could take a back seat). CHIPS seems much less divisive, though it seems stalled (at least based on recent statements by Intel and other CEOs).

Surely HN of all spaces would understand there are far more chip manufacturers than just Intel.

Do you have some secret intel? They make the best chips in the USA.

Yes, we should be giving that money to Boeing instead!

> His strategy is to put tariffs on chip imports and foreign chip manufacturers would have to build US based plants on their own dime.

The counter-argument (FWIW):

> Tariffs are paid by the importer and not the exporter. The Semiconductor Industry Association (SIA) claims that tariffs would not cause fabs to be built in the US, due to the cost of the factories, which can run from $18bn to $27bn.

> "No tariff amount will equal the costs of ripping apart these investments and efficient supply chains that have enabled current US industry leadership," SIA said.

> It added: "Moreover, chip tariffs will drive away manufacturing in advanced sectors that rely on semiconductor technology, such as aerospace, AI, robotics, next-generation networks, and autonomous vehicles. If the cost of key inputs like semiconductors is too high, tech manufacturers will relocate out of the US, costing jobs and further eroding US manufacturing and technological competitiveness."

* https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/trump-bashes-chip...

Foreign chipmakers would not pay the tariff (contrary to what Trump thinks) but their US customers, and what incentive to the foreign chipmakers to make changes? They're getting the same money and it's not costing them a dime. And where else are US businesses going to go for the product?

Lol, yeah. They will not do that.

He changed his tune on electric vehicles after Musk started backing him.

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not the same thing. in that case they are bringing India to the US, with trillion-dollar companies claiming "we just can't find enough qualified applicants!", meanwhile I'm working for the same salary I earned in 2012.

Intel's gross profit margins have been over 50% for most of the past 15 years[1].

[1] https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/INTC/intel/profit-...

Trade policy was set entirely by the elites, not consumers.

Did the neoliberal lobby block “protectionist” legislation? Did income inequality balloon in the US while Chinese wages exploded?