Steam's new disclaimer reminds everyone that you don't own your games

65 pointsposted 18 hours ago
by doener

78 Comments

benoau

15 hours ago

The worst part about this sad status quo is as games are removed from sale they will probably never be able to be lawfully obtained again because the IP ownership fragments and gets lost through descendants and bankruptcies and acquisitions. Meanwhile the people who bought them are told they only have “licenses” that can’t be transferred or bequeathed.

It will all just disappear forever within a few decades.

user

14 hours ago

[deleted]

pajeets

16 hours ago

if buying isn't owning then pirating isn't stealing

II2II

14 hours ago

If a vendor says that you bought something in the big print, then claims that you acutally paid for a revokable license in the small print, then I (personally) don't have much of a problem with someone pirating a copy to maintain access for what they paid for. After all, they convinced someone to pay for something through misrepresentation. That said, even with that qualification, I doubt the law would agree with that position.

That said, the author should have the right to decide the terms of sale (at least for luxury items) as long as they aren't misrepresenting the sale. If the button says something to the effect of "Buy Revokable License Now!", or something equally clear, instead of "Buy Now!" then the customer knows what they are getting into. They can either choose to pay for it, knowing they may lose access in the future, or they may choose not to pay for it since they view the terms as unacceptable.

satvikpendem

14 hours ago

Piracy was never stealing in the first place.

whamlastxmas

12 hours ago

Piracy is infringement. And only in the legal sense, not the moral sense

satvikpendem

10 hours ago

Indeed, copyright infringement is not stealing.

surgical_fire

14 hours ago

This is the correct answer.

Ironically, once again, piracy provides the best service.

falcolas

16 hours ago

Well, the government owns all of the land, so by that logic you should just steal whatever land you want, right?

43 CFR 2920

pajeets

15 hours ago

Non-rivalrous means that a good can be used by multiple people at the same time without reducing the amount available to others. By nature, digital licenses are non-rivalrous.

This means it can be used by multiple people at the same time without diminishing their quality or quantity. For example, a fireworks display is non-rivalrous because everyone can enjoy it without affecting the quality of the show. Likewise, software can be enjoyed by everyone without affecting the quality of the life of the producer or its content and there is no indication that piracy can limit the latter and former.

mtndew4brkfst

2 hours ago

Likewise, software can be enjoyed by everyone without affecting the quality of the life of the producer or its content and there is no indication that piracy can limit the latter and former.

So if I produce paid software as my sole livelihood and income, there is "no indication" that piracy of my work output could limit my quality of life?

I will concede that pirated copies are not made up 100% of lost sales in this scenario as long as other people will also reasonably concede that the number is probably not 0% either.

timeon

6 hours ago

> fireworks display is non-rivalrous because everyone can enjoy it

Sorry for OT, but if we are talking about enjoying it the it is everyone except all other animals.

mtndew4brkfst

2 hours ago

Plenty of humans don't enjoy fireworks either, and by nature that's tough luck - others who enjoy them won't consult you and will make it your problem.

I hate them mostly for sensory reasons, plus I find the pollution/litter irritating, and quite often the thing being celebrated with fireworks is innately problematic too.

hoppp

15 hours ago

Land can't be duplicated for free

georgeplusplus

16 hours ago

Unfortunately it doesn’t work like that.

I’m so pro physical media it’s ridiculous that people can’t be bothered to go in a store and get a copy. They will only care when they get locked out of their account and realize that when steam says you really don’t own your games that they weren’t bluffing.

ThunderSizzle

16 hours ago

Buying physical media is still renting if it uses any sort of internet validation or online check, because those servers aren't guaranteed to always be online in the immediate or far future.

threecheese

15 hours ago

Especially with shared key material that has an expiry in that future, that consumers aren’t aware of or wouldn’t understand if they were.

pajeets

15 hours ago

I must respectfully disagree with your assertion. The non-rivalrous nature of software, as established in numerous legal precedents (see Sony Corp. v. Universal City Studios, 464 U.S. 417 (1984) and Vernor v. Autodesk, Inc., 621 F.3d 1102 (9th Cir. 2010)), fundamentally alters the traditional concept of ownership in the digital realm.

While your preference for physical media is duly noted, it fails to account for the evolving landscape of digital rights management (DRM) and end-user license agreements (EULAs). The legal framework surrounding digital distribution platforms like Steam is predicated on a licensing model, not a transfer of ownership per se.

Your concern about account lockouts, while not entirely unfounded, overlooks the myriad benefits of digital distribution, including but not limited to: reduced environmental impact, instant access, automatic updates, and cloud saves. Furthermore, it disregards the legal protections afforded to consumers under various jurisdictions' consumer protection laws.

In conclusion, while your nostalgia for physical media is understandable, it does not negate the legal and practical realities of modern software distribution. The non-rivalrous nature of software necessitates a different paradigm of ownership and access, one that the current legal and technological frameworks are still grappling with.

kbolino

14 hours ago

Very few places sell PC games on physical media anymore and most games don't even have physical media made for PCs in the first place anymore. PC games sold on physical media were already dying 15 years ago, before Steam really took off. Major retailers had already begun drastically downsizing the PC game section, and a lot of games released for consoles first, with PC editions being half-assed ports released much later, if they came out at all.

The modern resurgence in PC gaming only exists because of digital distribution. "Just buy your PC games in the store" hasn't been a viable option in a long time. There is GOG as a DRM-free option at least, if you want to truly have a copy that can't be taken from you.

YurgenJurgensen

16 hours ago

Are you saying that it’s due to laziness that some $12 strategy game from Eastern Europe that might sell 1000 copies worldwide doesn’t have copies in every Best Buy?

pajeets

15 hours ago

That is the "digital media & software is a rivalrous good therefore not paying for it is stealing" argument that copyright lobbyists have preached to Americans since the "You wouldn't download a car" campaign in the early 2000s

beached_whale

16 hours ago

Funny thing is, this made me look at places like Gog again, bought a few games. But I am ok waiting years to play a game on lower end hardware with all the games bug fixes already in place.

m463

16 hours ago

If you have GOG, good time to point out software like lgogdownloaderⁱ will let you download the offline installers for your entire library.

I suspect there are partial ways to do similar things for steam, except for the actual play-the-game part is dependent on the DRM.

[1] https://github.com/Sude-/lgogdownloader

benoau

15 hours ago

GOG have also said they will help honour bequeathing your library if you leave it to someone and identify your username/email. Steam have expressed no such desire.

https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/gog-will-let-you-beq...

> "In general, your GOG account and GOG content is not transferable. However, if you can obtain a copy of a court order that specifically entitles someone to your GOG personal account, the digital content attached to it taking into account the EULAs of specific games within it, and that specifically refers to your GOG username or at least email address used to create such an account, we'd do our best to make it happen. We're willing to handle such a situation and preserve your GOG library—but currently we can only do it with the help of the justice system."

getwiththeprog

6 hours ago

In this age, I do not play soccer or cricket with my kids. We game together. Many kids will grow up remembering the good old games with the good old folks.

greenstalk

16 hours ago

Steam, in terms of consumer policy, has only ever been as strong as Gabe Newell. I think we'll see another Activision/Blizzard situation in the near future as Gabe looks to step back into (semi-)retirement.

A4ET8a8uTh0

16 hours ago

Sadly, this is pretty accurate and not that different a situation from linux kernel where Linus still reigns. Their vision is driving both and, thankfully for most, they have been fairly benevolent dictators.

But, and it is not a small but, even with their benevolent dictatorship in place, it can only get much worse after they are gone. The pieces to a rather bad ecosystem are all in place.

lofaszvanitt

15 hours ago

Well, basically nothing happened in the last 10 years with Steam.

a1o

16 hours ago

This has always been the case and is the case in anything digital game related.

bakugo

15 hours ago

Not really, if the game is DRM-free (which is the case for all games on GOG and even some on Steam, plus the Steamworks DRM that most games use is very easy to bypass if there's nothing else in addition to it), you effectively do own it. Of course, it's your responsibility to preserve a copy of the files because your ability to redownload them in the future isn't guaranteed, but once you have them, nobody can stop you from using them.

pseudosaid

14 hours ago

read gog terms, you still have a license to a key. its just now you have access to an offline installer

a3w

16 hours ago

No, steam is the worst of both worlds of digital selling: It is a mandatory subscription service, on top, to access your games, not just a one time purchase.

bugfix

15 hours ago

Once you buy a game on Steam, you don't need to pay any kind of subscription to play it. The vast majority of games sold there are, in fact, one-time purchases. The games stay in your library even if the developer/publisher decides to delist them.

There are games like MMOs that do require a subscription, but that has nothing to do with Steam itself.

user

16 hours ago

[deleted]

user

16 hours ago

[deleted]

wizzwizz4

16 hours ago

I'm sure there are some services that work like this (whichever console has an online service called "Live" comes to mind), but Steam doesn't appear to – unless there's some fine print I've forgotten.

to11mtm

16 hours ago

It depends whether they are using Steam's form of DRM (AFAIR it can require at minimum some form of time-based token auth where you can still play offline so long as you have done so recently.)

PS4/PS5 as well as XBox%whatever% have a setup close to this, however based on my observations the tokens tend to 'auto-refresh' (at least on PS4/PS5) so long as you actually turn the thing on once in a while.

ApolloFortyNine

16 hours ago

... Do you think steam is a mandatory subscription service?

Maxatar

16 hours ago

The subscription is mandatory to play your games.

inexcf

15 hours ago

What subscription? And if anything it is only necessary for games with Steam DRM.

Maxatar

15 hours ago

The very subscription that the article posted is about. I suppose no one bothers reading submissions before commenting on them, but anyways here you go, the Steam Subscriber Agreement.

https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

pseudosaid

14 hours ago

thats some standard TOS. if making a free account is a subscription, then so is making a gmail account.

Maxatar

9 hours ago

I think the point is that most people know that Google can terminate your subscription to GMail, whereas most people would be surprised to know that Valve can also terminate your subscription to Steam and lock you out of your game library.

That's effectively what this article is about, Valve is complying with a new law where they must disclose to customers that they can terminate access to games that a customer already paid for because the relationship between the customer and Steam is of an on-going subscription.

GoG on the other hand explicitly states that you do not have a subscription to their service and so a suspension from GoG does not revoke your access to play purchased games. In fact GoG has no means whatsoever to revoke your access to play games you purchased from GoG.

It would be like going to Best Buy and buying a video game, even if in the future you decide to be Best Buy's worst enemy, or you get into a dispute with them, who knows what... Best Buy can't take away what you already bought from them because your relationship with Best Buy was that of a vendor rather than an ongoing subscription.

gregoryl

14 hours ago

Can you link to the page with the subscription costs?

lofaszvanitt

15 hours ago

Oh, the GOG client is one of the worst. If you firewall certain parts of it, it just constantly cries to a central log server that something is wrong, every 5 seconds or so. Terrible stitched together abomination.

II2II

15 hours ago

Then download the individual game installers.

I understand that there is some convenience to the GOG client but, if memory serves me correctly, you have to configure the client to keep the installers. If you do not keep the game installers, you are not much better off than you would be if you obtained the game through Steam. If anything were to happen to GOG you would eventually end up losing access to the game.

Besides, the ability to run games without the client is a huge benefit in my books. You simply launch the game and immerse yourself in it. You have do not have to go through the marketing department (erm, store) in order to play the game.

righthand

16 hours ago

Valve gets a lot of love for game design and leaking employee manuals but when it comes to software freedom they are just another Microsoft.

add-sub-mul-div

16 hours ago

I can buy Windows software without Microsoft being a middleman. Steam on the other hand exists only to be a middleman. You could (most naturally) buy a game without paying a middleman, but it's the exception now for some reason and not the rule.

to11mtm

15 hours ago

> You could (most naturally) buy a game without paying a middleman, but it's the exception now for some reason and not the rule.

Publishing rights.

Ironically, Apogee, Epic, and iD [0] and others got their fortunes by hacking the systems in place back then.

Apogee and Epic in their way, by doing 'shareware', however the final distributor was distributing the shareware [1] the had a chance to get a cut, and they were spreading the brand.

iD, when they did Doom, went even further. We easily forget that in the 90s, 'only' a 30% take from the publisher was nearly unheard of. When it came to retail I think it was almost inverted if not worse. Uploading to FTP and letting whoever distribute the shareware, then they got all the mail orders in and only had to pay their duplication/printing costs and recoup whatever other art costs were involved.

Publishers -can- provide value. I'll posit there's lots of titles I've only purchased because they showed up on a Steam/GOG feed.

[0] I think that's how you were supposed to type it back then, been a hot minute.

[1] Oh the 'Shareware store' is a thing I should blog about someday, in retrospect that place was weird lol.

Ekaros

15 hours ago

Would be interesting to hear or find at some point what was the split for early iD games for example. Commander Keen and Wolfenstein 3D. Which seems to have been published by Apogee(3D realms later).

clhodapp

16 hours ago

Even this new wording feels designed to misdirect:

The purpose of the California law is to tell customers that that aren't buying a digital product but only the license.

And yet there remains language that customers are likely to interpret to mean that they've bought the game.

mendym

18 hours ago

Does GOG games have built-in way to launch a windows game via proton?

Because currently my main reason for using steam is the easy linux installation

LocutusOfBorges

17 hours ago

Heroic is reasonably seamless - it integrates with GOG and your Steam library, and by extension Proton. Pretty popular among Steam Deck users.

https://heroicgameslauncher.com/

airstrike

17 hours ago

I just want to play HoMM3 on Mac OS... maybe one day

A4ET8a8uTh0

16 hours ago

Oh man, I just showed my kid homm3 with HD mod. I dunno what are VM options exist on Mac OS, but it may be the way.

II2II

14 hours ago

I have heard of alternative game launchers that will take care of launching Windows games (including GOG titles) under Linux.

But I usually just end up purchasing Linux games through GOG and Windows games through Steam.

Frenchgeek

17 hours ago

I use Lutris for that, a bit clunky (especially updating games) but it does work.

A4ET8a8uTh0

17 hours ago

See the other two posts for recommendations, but be aware that neither of the options listed is at the level of experience Steam may have spoiled us with. My last try was 4 or 5 months ago and I ended up just going with a VM.

righthand

16 hours ago

Lutris the popular option. Heroic is another but is a chromium app fyi.

pseudosaid

17 hours ago

this has always been the case. ownership has predominately been a license to a key, regardless of your offline installer or cd.

Dibby053

17 hours ago

This goes a step further than a typical CD key because the license is contingent on one's Steam account. If you lose your Steam account you lose all your licenses.

>The Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Content and Services. To make use of the Content and Services, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet. [1]

[1] https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement#2

pseudosaid

14 hours ago

this IS true. your key access is umbrella’d under your steam account, which licenses you access to their software distribution services and other platform features.

How is this different than apple’s walled garden, or my email service, or nintendo digital downloads?

user

16 hours ago

[deleted]

A4ET8a8uTh0

16 hours ago

Oddly, I see it as a good thing. The more people realize how badly the system is taking advantage of them, the more of a chance we get a new status quo that is a little more reasonable.

bitwize

17 hours ago

It used to be written on the disk pack in the back of software manuals: "THIS SOFTWARE IS LICENSED, NOT SOLD. By opening this packet you agree to be bound by the terms of the End User License Agreement." Which was usually written in very "rules-for-thee-but-not-for-me" terms that bound you, the end user, and benefited the publisher. You couldn't resell it, you couldn't reverse-engineer or decompile it, you couldn't do anything but run it on one (1) computer for the specific purpose for which it was written. Some EULAs even stipulated license expiry terms; the one for dBASE III demanded that you return the software disks and other materials after a period of fifty (50) years from the date of purchase.

You've never owned the proprietary software you've used. You only used it as long as the whim of the copyright owner allowed it (and/or they couldn't enforce it). This is why Stallman chose twenty-three individuals to establish Free Software Zion several cycles ago.

actionfromafar

17 hours ago

I lot of those terms were thrown at the wall to see if they stuck, though. There's the First Sale doctrine for instance. If you actually signed a contract, all bets are off, but if you just bought a shrink-wrap, a lot of these terms were make-believe.

bitwize

17 hours ago

Vernor v. Autodesk says no.

actionfromafar

16 hours ago

Ouch, that's sad. But I must say I don't quite understand the implications of that ruling. Also, there are many jurisdictions, and the shopping list of terms on shrink-wrap can't possibly hold in all of them..

add-sub-mul-div

17 hours ago

But when you owned a disc you could use offline, they were never going to come to your home and take it. It was effectively yours. Steam normalized a world where that license revocation could actually be invoked and enforced from afar.

catlikesshrimp

16 hours ago

At least it is now clear For Millenials who expected products to be sold.

Newer generations are happy with owning nothing. At least it is the default for software.

a3w

16 hours ago

Steam says it is subscription, currently at "zero monetary units"/month. But if the fee is ever raised and goes unpaid, it reserves the right to lock you out from half-life 2 and every game after that, since day one of its invention.

I get downvoted for 15 years of posting this online, every time. Not today?

Fuzzwah

13 hours ago

Where does steam say that it is a $0/mo subscription?

dp-hackernews

18 hours ago

WTF DO you own - just a transaction entry?

paxys

17 hours ago

You own a "license" to play the game which they can revoke whenever they want for any or no reason.

wmf

17 hours ago

No, you don't even own that; if your account is disabled for any reason you will lose everything. You don't own anything.