KMnO4
a year ago
For anyone else wondering, the satellite transceiver is a RockBoard, which charges:
- $302 for the hardware
- $17/month for a “line fee”
- $0.20/message (50 characters)
Would be nice if there was an actually affordable, programmable Iridium device.
wkat4242
a year ago
The keyword of the problem there is Iridium. Their SBD (short burst data) and in fact all their services are just extremely expensive. This reseller doesn't really seem to put much margin on it.
When I had a sat phone (needed to travel sometimes to questionable places for work) I used Thuraya which is much cheaper for airtime. 40€ gets you a whole year's worth of inbound service (airtime) and about 15 mins of call credit for outbound. With iridium that gets you about one month.
But Thuraya only had 2 active sats. One geostationary over the middle east and one over the far east. No service over the Americas. The Asian one failed early this year and the coverage for the region which can't be met by the other one is now inoperable.
The middle east sat is actually beyond its planned service life and if it goes down there's no immediate backup. Though a replacement is ready for launch according to Wikipedia. You also need visibility of the southern horizon (or northern, if you're in the southern hemisphere). So for hiking in valleys it's not a good bet. The same goes for Inmarsat for that matter. But they do have more sats.
Iridium in contrast is fully worldwide, has a robust constellation of many low earth orbit sats that move across the sky so you don't need to see a fixed point. It's more robust for emergencies. But the price is much higher. It's a trade-off. You get what you pay for.
As I no longer travel for work but do hike, I ditched the Thuraya and got a Garmin InReach which runs on iridium. But that costs more than Thuraya even though it can only send messages. Though with their latest cost increase I might just drop it and find something cheaper. Maybe Starlink direct to cell.
myself248
a year ago
It's really a shame. Iridium could sell best-effort hobbyist-grade service in their excess capacity, which would get the hardware into people's hands, but they don't.
Cynically I assume this is because it would be no different than their expensive service in practice, and cannibalize their premium offerings.
wkat4242
a year ago
Yeah there were some other hobbyist-friendly budget offerings like swarm but they were acquired by starlink and pretty much deprecated.
causal
a year ago
I've been wondering how Iridium costs are tallied.
Recently had two calls with an Iridium phone, one sent and one received, about 1 minute each. T-Mobile charged me $50 for those.
I found it very odd - it seemed like Iridium was somehow passing the call fees onto me, but I can't be sure because the T-Mobile rep I chatted with was unable to comprehend the situation (I suspect I was talking to an LLM, but it ultimately gave me a $30 rebate at least).
lxgr
a year ago
Receiving calls from Iridium should be free – the caller usually pays for the satellite portion of the call.
That usually makes Iridium -> terrestrial calls much more economical than the other way around, as telcos usually use the opportunity of terrestrial -> satcom calls to add on ridiculous margins. Conversely, satellite -> terrestrial calling is usually around a dollar per minute or less, these days.
In your situation, that would come out to a $50 (or maybe $25) charge per minute. Hefty, but that indeed seems to be at least in the ballpark of their listed rates (for prepaid here, for example: https://prepaid.t-mobile.com/connect/international-calling-r...).
causal
a year ago
Nice - thanks for digging. I'm guessing you're right, iirc it rounded up the number of minutes.
slaucon
a year ago
I’ve had to make and pay for an unfortunate number of Iridium calls. They can be crazy expensive depending on carrier, who all bill them as a call to an international line in the country of “Satellite”. Usually you pay your carrier’s fee for outgoing and it’s cheaper/free to receive the calls.
It seems like cell carriers always charge more per minute for satellite calls than any satellite provider does, so I’m guessing they just set their rates conservatively to always make a profit on their end. And the demand for satellite calls seems like it would be pretty inelastic.
Scoundreller
a year ago
This is why iridium supports calling their regular PSTN gateway and then dialing the satellite number recipient, then the satellite recipient pays a more palatable $1.50/minute:
0xffff2
a year ago
I've always assumed that answering a phone call would be free for me (excepting the dawn of cell phones when they had a limited number of minutes per month). If answering a sat-phone call is "cheaper" rather than free, does anything warn me that I'm incurring extra charges?
LeoPanthera
a year ago
Paying to receive a call seems to a mostly American phenomenon. In most (all?) of Europe, receiving calls is always free, no matter where or how they originate.
themoonisachees
a year ago
I think now this is correct due to European laws, but not that long ago, if you were not in your home country and someone called you, you could be billed for the international part of the call. Nowadays the agreements telcos were forced to put in place means this is largely solved in the EU, and quite cheap outside of it.
therein
a year ago
You can actually achieve this even with Iridium Go. I tried it years ago and it worked.
It isn't too documented, or let me say it isn't documented at all but you can write AT commands and start raw TCP connections and read and write to that socket.
And it is actually reasonably priced. I tried to open SSH connections and it was barely usable. You get a very small number of bits per second.
Edit: Found the private repo I had created back then in case anyone has any interest. It looks like I did something like this:
func (sess *IridiumGoSession) ActivateDataWithCustomSettings() (*PerformTaskResponse, error) {
return sess.PerformTask("2",
MakeOption("set state", "true", "bool"),
MakeOption("Firewall allow all traffic", "false", "bool"),
MakeOption("Firewall exceptions", "XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX-all-tcp", "bool"),
MakeOption("Enable DNS forwarding", "false", "bool"),
MakeOption("Dial number", "0088160000330", "bool"),
)
}
Need to replace `XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX` with the IP you want to establish a connection to. And I don't know where I got 0088160000330 from. I guess that's the internet call number.anthk
a year ago
Mosh will be much faster.
GlibMonkeyDeath
a year ago
Indeed - a Garmin InReach is about US $500 and already ruggedized and tested. I understand the DIY aspect of this project is the fun part, but it definitely isn't a way to save money.
stilldavid
a year ago
With a robust used market, as well. I laughed at the battery life goals for this - the inreach mini I use lasts _days_.
matrix2003
a year ago
Depending on how you look at it, Starlink can be incredibly cheap compared to Iridium. It’s still not cheap from where I’m sitting in my clapped out Honda Civic, though.
Edit: I think $250 for 50GB of truly global data. I can’t do the math right now, but it seems like a better deal at face value.
lxgr
a year ago
$50/month, these days, if I'm not mistaken. (You can only use it abroad for two months at a time, but you can update your location as as far as I'm aware, and it's $/€ 50 in most places.)
Price wise, it's no comparison, but the two don't directly compete yet – power usage and antenna size of Iridium and Starlink are orders of magnitude apart (largely due to the L-band spectrum available to Iridium globally).
matrix2003
a year ago
The higher rate gets you oceanic use, which is a big benefit of iridium.
You are correct that it can be $50, but AFAIK that’s a different plan that is land or near-land only.
lxgr
a year ago
Ah yes, good point.
I believe the $50 plan used to have a pay-per-GB option for offshore use – $2 or so per GB, compared to $5 and more per MB for the competitors. But even at 300 or so, it’s orders of magnitude better for high-bandwidth use cases.
cyberax
a year ago
> Depending on how you look at it, Starlink can be incredibly cheap compared to Iridium.
They don't have sat-to-sat communications deployed yet, so they can work only near the ground stations.
dotnet00
a year ago
Hmm? Starlink has had sat-to-sat active for a while now. They've been making a killing selling services to ships and planes lately.
matrix2003
a year ago
The laser interlinks have been turned on.
nirav72
a year ago
They have sat-to-sat now. I was on a cruise ship this past summer that used starlink. I was able to get a consistent 3-5 mbps up/down in the middle of the ocean with nearest land at least several hundred miles away.
matrix2003
a year ago
> Would be nice if there was an actually affordable, programmable Iridium device.
I remember reading about this a while back, but doesn’t SpaceX offer some kind of IoT modem for a low cost (not the Starlink dishes)
atlgator
a year ago
Where did you buy Iridium access for $17/month?