https://archive.ph/ff533

I think happiness is actually a pretty complicated idea and people mean many different things by it. Is happiness pleasure? Fulfillment? Purpose? Is it a transitory psychological state or a deeper orientation? Or both? If we say money makes us happy, are we saying that money removes problems? That it enables positive experiences or material things that contribute to happiness? All of the above, or some combination of it?

Examining this topic with even two minutes of sustained attention and rigor revels the paucity of our discourse. Money contributes to happiness, but saying that money buys happiness is like saying not getting shot contributes to health. True, but there is so much more to the story.

Article text: https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/1fvxrxl/comment/...

Source paper: https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.2016976118

Key quote: "Drawing on 1,725,994 experience-sampling reports from 33,391 employed US adults, the present results show that both experienced and evaluative well-being increased linearly with log(income)"

Personal opinion: The title is slightly incorrect. Money doesn't directly buy happiness. Instead, money buys freedom, and freedom can be invested & converted into happiness. E.g, having a sufficient amount of savings (also known as "Fuck You Money") allows a person to leave a bad situation (job, location, partner, etc) and find a better one that makes them happier. Money doesn't directly buy long term happiness if it's splurged on random short-term dopamine hits like a fancy car or ephemeral social status. This is a key tenet of the FI/RE movement and one of the reasons for UBI.

Source: I watched many people at FAANGs spend their $500k+ salaries on random short term things and never manage to find long term happiness or escape the rat race.

the conclusions i've reached are

- it's definitely possible to be so poor that you'll never be happy

- it's definitely possible to be so unhappy that money won't help

- once you've established what makes you happy, money unlocks much more

My take on Money is that it buys happiness of one type: being able to afford things . But it can come at a cost where sometimes it cancels out the happiness in other areas. For example, an entrepreneur working 80 hour weeks or even a hot shot lawyer etc who have no time for other things but can buy their kid a $1000 ipad easily.

Yes you need money and yes it is generally good to have more than less. But Happiness comes from other areas and Money is just 1 factor. So if you are rich already, yes more money could buy a bit more happiness but for complete fullfillment in life, you need other things.

Some things money cannot buy. For example, real social connections. Friendships. Relationship with your spouse. Family. etc.

Of course it does. It's bizarre that people claim otherwise.

As I see it, aside from the obvious (Security, food, etc.) money lets you focus more on certain activities of your own choice. Either through more time or more efficient use of time (ie: pay for a coach, etc.).

This can make you happier if those activities align with what brings you happiness in a sustainable way. Many people are pretty terrible at knowing what that is or caring to do those activities which just makes it a net neutral. Cocaine fueled benders instead of a top tier therapist type of stuff.

Hah, ask my kid. Money does buy happiness when we go to a store. $20 for a black bottle of prime that they always wanted? Why not! I could start explaining with logic why it is not wise to buy it, but would my kid be happy lying to himself or happy holding that bottle? Same applies for lots of other cheap and expensive products. YOLO is a real thing that should not be avoided and at the same time should not be abused.

My own experience:

I never developed the habit of spending more when my salary went up, so raises do not do much for me these days. I think most folks do, so someone making 500k a year probably can afford more of their lifestyle. 10% more for me changes nothing (other than the age at which I get to retire - perhaps a relevant part of the debate).

The Planet Money podcast reciently did a great episode about this topic:

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/18/1200121013/money-happiness-ka...

Works where archive.ph is blocked:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/money-buys-happiness...

Text-only:

https://assets.msn.com/content/view/v2/Detail/en-in/AA1rEHEH

Hookers and blow always put a smile on someone's face.

Every one of my siblings and cousins, my nephews and nieces live in poverty. Poverty, addiction and early death are rampant in what remains of my extended family. Having a six figure income, interesting work, and disposable cash has bought me peace and happiness that is hard to express.

Money can’t buy happiness, but when properly utilized, it’s damned effective at deleting obstructions to happiness.

"Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy a ski-doo. You ever seen someone frownin' on a ski-doo before?"

Jokes aside, I feel like clarification is needed here. The idea that money doesn't buy happiness comes from a few things.

1. You're most happy when helping others and building community. This is proven time and time again through studies [1]. You cannot purchase friends or accomplishments.

2. Simply having a pile of cash doesn't make you happy. In fact, it doesn't really even make you happy when you buy things. You might get a hit of dopamine, but how would a fast car or big house make you happy? Certainly having access to SOME vehicle and SOME house would alleviate a ton of stress, but that's not the same as gaining happiness.

3. People need to recognize the differences here - a dopamine hit quickly fades. You will stop being "happy" because the novelty of having your toy wears off. The novelty of having friends never wears off, and you don't need to keep acquiring new friends to maintain happiness.

I have no idea where all this "new wisdom" is coming from, but it's really bad, pretty much every time I see it.

edit: I should note that I can't read the article because it's paywalled. Maybe there's some mind-blowing revelation inside, but I doubt it.

[1] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10902-020-00242-8

https://archive.is/ff533

I think the nugget here is that this is true of people with significant resources already.

Previously, the common adage was that there was a ceiling. That beyond $75,000 (at the time), there was no more happiness to be gained by more money. Now it seems that the same study could be interpreted in multiple ways.

Here are links to other articles about the study, the conclusions, and the change.

https://behavioralpolicy.princeton.edu/news/DK_wellbeing0323

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/money-happiness-study-daniel-ka...

It seems the real finding is that money can only solve unhappiness caused by things that cost money (which is a lot to be fair), however, if the source of your unhappiness is something else, money doesn't work to make you happy.

Money buys experiences, comfort, and some happiness.

Money, imo, buys security. The more you have in theory the less you have to worry about your mortgage (if any), healthcare, retirement etc. By taking the issue of financial security off the table it allows people to pursue whatever brings them happiness, instead of worrying about paying bills.

I used to think this but I think it's more like it buys autonomy, but at some point you need to make the leap and enjoy the full benefits of money

I wouldn’t expect the Wall Street Journal to be a serious critic of capitalism anyway…

... if you know how to use them for such purpose

Only rich people say money doesn't buy happiness.

It's great the scientific HN crowd realizes the truth of this very scientific research report, which also flatters the preconceptions of the class they were born to. Rivals those intelligence studies which magically measure intelligence, also flattering the preconceived notion of the class they...et al. With their apparent plethora of identical twins reared apart.