> And even if you don’t want to update the app, Google will eventually start hiding apps from users if the app doesn’t target some minimum API version. This means you can’t just publish an app and leave it at that; it’s several days of work per app per year to keep up with the latest rug-pulls from Google.

That's something I just can't understand. If the old API is insecure or whatever, then surely the OS can put some sort of a secure emulator sandbox around old apps. You can run 35 years old NES games but not a 5 years old app? This doesn't make sense.

I never particularly liked Microsoft but userspace compatibility is something they got right and Google got wrong.

Related article: never build your castle on someone's ground

https://howtomarketagame.com/2021/11/01/dont-build-your-cast...

This happens so quickly: 1. you are not allowed to root your phone or your bank apps will stop working

2. you are not allowed to take the screenshot of a move/cartoon (for meme purposes) because of policy

3. you are no longer allowed to use MHL to send video to your HDMI screen (use some smart-sh* itv)

etc.

if someone has his new kingdom filled, they will quickly build walls, introduce taxes and start oppression — same with Spotify artists, youtube ads etc etc.

Even if you want to comply. Google's system is broken: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/thre... --> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41647234

I spent days trying to get my numbers verified. I tried using 3 different internet providers (init7, Swisscom, Yallo/Sunrise) and still received the 429 (Too many requests). It took me a 4th connection (cyberlink) and using my private cell phone which is now publicly visible on my Google play company profile. I still have an open case at Google Support which is over a week old with no reply. When I try to edit my number now to set my business phone number I still get 429.

On a second note. DO NOT PAY for your DUNS number. DnB does not charge for this number, only 3rd parties do. Contact DnB directly and they will issue you the number or send you your current number. I am in Switzerland and I can not lookup my number online but I can fill out a form at DUNS at which point a few days later you get your number via email. I used this link: https://www.dnb.com/en-ch/duns-request.html

As for official company document. Google accepted a PDF copy my Swiss Companies registration entry in the official register which you can just download online at no cost.

And as a final note. Google will re-review your apps. One of mine has now been removed from the app store and I am waiting for the appeal..: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41667488

The digital economy is supposed to benefit from the "long tail" effect, where countless niche operators provide all sorts of diverse products that serve potentially only very small audiences.

The long tail concept was conceived before the development of central gatekeepers. As this post demonstrates, frictions introduced at these choke points (for valid or invalid reasons) can demolish that long tail in an instant.

Duns is a scam.

Once I had to register my company there and they wanted to "verify" the information. They did it by randomly calling me 2 weeks later and asked if it is real and asked me to give a phone to someone next to me to confirm I am not lying.

I am personally very happy that developers need to add a phone number and contact email. Most of the apps I use on a daily basis are Google apps looking forward to start calling them for support, thanks Google!

Would F-Droid work for you? I'm installing an increasing number of apps from there and donating as well.

Don't understand this comparison

> While [paid company ID] may be just some paperwork and a small expense, the next requirement is more insidious: “a phone number and email address for Google Play users to contact you”. I’m fine showing an email address, but I absolutely do not want my phone number to be available to anyone on the internet.

It's exactly the same, only cheaper and faster - some dumb extra cost/paperwork: get an extra phone number for this form and never use it/forward everything to voicemail, keeping your main phone private. The same goes for email, although that one would be free

I imagine that is what Google wants. They don't want solo developers. They just want a company making apps. And dealing with companies is easier than with a solo developer. One could argue that a single employee company and a solo developer is the same, but again, the intention is to burden a solo developer single company, so that only small companies are the ones creating apps.

If they have not gone to the route of directly banning solo developers is just to avoid the pushback.

This is quite sad, but thankfully it is still fairly easy to just download an APK and install it. This is the primary driver keeping me away from Apple devices. I'll be very sad if Android stops supporting not-from-the-app-store APK files.

I'm also a solo dev and while I understand the nuisance the changes are often slow and spread out.

It's annoying if you have 1 app but if you have many, it's still the same amount of work.

I built a little offline, no frills app for mushroom picking for my dad's birthday and every 2/3 years I need to rebuild it with a new target API. No big deal and it keeps making me think whether it's worth it being there or not: until my dad or I go to mushroom picking then the answer will be yes.

The requirement to publish phone/email suck but can be worked around with something like Google Voice and any free or very cheap email provider.

The more galling aspect is the home address. I just went through this as well and I don’t at all like my home address being available on the Play Store for my apps. Especially since my apps are local (specific to events in my city).

Absolutely ridiculous, to require a DUNS number when so many apps are published by a single person, often for fun or hobby.

My apps will be gone because Google wants to publish my home address for the world to see. What the hell, I'm an individual, not a company.

Hope author decides to open source the apps if they no longer plans to make money from them and they're going to be delisted anyway

>Again this is no problem for a company for whom the app is their core business, but bad news for indie and hobbyist developers who just want to make something cool, put it out there, and move on to the next project.

Is it not obvious that Google does not want "indie developers who make something cool, out it out there, and move onto the next project"?

I suspect this is another symptom of a universal slow "Myspace" death of native applications. Apple's compliance rules become more and more strict, Windows flags basically every executable as virus unless you pay for the most expensive types of signatures, and now Google is requiring all kinds of documentation including phone numbers and home addresses. Are those companies not aware that they're slowly destroying their own infrastructure?

I'm planning to build a small software company but so far everyone I've asked has strongly suggested to create web applications instead. Can a solo developer publish an app for all major platforms in 2025, or is this a completely crazy idea?

The official document is pretty standard KYC/AML.

Number for users to phone sounds like a nightmare though

You can find your DUNS number for free through Apple.

Mine as well. Sucks that I just went through the required updating of the build (minimum sdk) of my only app on there, a 2016 Java string art app below 2MB with no data collection, advertising or monetization whatsoever.

Now they want to publish my full address too, because they believe I make money off of it, and I can't contest this in any way. Fine. I'll let them delete my account and I'll open source that app and put it on F-Droid then.

Last I looked into publishing on App/Play Stores, the thing scarring me away most was some verbose declaration on exporting encryption from US etc. Couldn't wrap my head around it.

It's the same thing with Apple App Store.

And with 3rd party merchants like Fastspring, Mycommerce, Paddle, Paypro, etc.

It's not just the EU, the US money laundering KYC rules are also pretty annoying.

Very much a tangent, but is it still impossible to build apps for android using 100% open source tools?

I haven't jumped on the android bandwagon, but I've been thinking about developing an android app and host it on f-droid provided that I am not forced to use proprietary/NDA crap.

Open source your apps, publish them on F-Droid, or allow downloads from your website—that's what I've been doing.

> Maybe it could be in the form of a web app. We’ll see.

I think this is, (and maybe always has been) the way forward.

With more and more languages being able to either compile down to js or even wasm, I feel like the bar might be a little lower than before.

You could release them on F-Droid instead, or even just your personal site.

> the next requirement is more insidious: “a phone number and email address for Google Play users to contact you”.

It's even worse: if you are an individual with paid apps, Google will publish the physical address from your merchant account to your Storefront page. You will not be able to use a PO box / UPS Store box etc.

Mine too, for the same reason.

It's a feature, not a bug. Of course Google would rather partner with five companies bringing a billion dollars than a billion indie developers bringing five dollars. From business perspective, there's no need to host all these indie apps when 99% of your users only download TikTok and Facebook. Sure, the 1% of users will get mad, but these people actually cost Google more money than they bring in, so having them mad and potentially leave the platform is a good thing.

Times have changed.

wasn't there also something about very strict requirement with regard to having an app (that is applying for being listed in gps) being tested by a dozen or so people over something like 3 weeks?

I am the creator of a photo editor www.photopea.com, used by around 1 million people every day (of which 300,000 use Android, 150,000 use iOS). After reading this article, I am so happy that I never spent a single hour trying to publish my tool at the "mobile stores" :D

Google is not interested.

TLDR: I nag a lot, the rules change so I don't want to play any more. Why does bureaucracy happen?

I don't know where the writer writes from (don't care to look it up). From experience, in the UK there are companies were you can outsource (at little cost) most of your admin stuff, and/or you can also mark them as the 'HQ' of your company, using their address instead of yours. I will go ahead and assume that everywhere in the civilized world similar companies exist. Also "is only right morally, but not legally" is very BS. These are the rules, take them or leave them. You can escalate, but not break them, otherwise if YOU pick which rules YOU want to break, then I will pick the rules that I want to break, and then it goes only downhill.

DUNS: I remember when I created an app for Apple Store, they were requesting the same. I did it. It took me 10mins, nothing to see here, move on.

For reference, I had my own Ltd in the UK, I was contracting and was using the same Ltd for my app, so I've actually done this.

Doing business has costs. If the writer doesn't want the costs of doing business, perhaps he/she is in the wrong business (?). But "screw the rules" is not cool.

I have a larger question. I know there is no answer now but i'll leave it here for posterity.

Everyone seems to have a love/hate relationship with app/play stores and these stores have a stranglehold on developers. "This is our new policy. Accept it or we'll kick you out."

The TOS we enter into with app/play store is fully in their favor with no rights to the developers.

For android, worstcase, i can have people download the apk from my website. For iphone there's no way around.