Fraud, so much fraud

1528 pointsposted a year ago
by nabla9

255 Comments

dekhn

a year ago

These sorts of articles raise so many thoughts and emotions in me. I was trained as a computational biologist with a little lab work and ran gels from time to time. Personally, I hated gels- they're finicky, messy, ugly, and don't really tell you very much. But molecular biology as a field runs on gels- it's the priimary source of results for almost everything in molbio. I have seen more talks and papers that rested entirely a single image of a gel which is really just some dark bands.

At the same time, I was a failed scientist: my gels weren't as interesting, or convincing compared to the ones done by the folks who went on to be more successful. At the time (20+ years ago) it didn't occur to me that anybody would intentionally modify images of gels to promote the results they claimed, although I did assume that folks didn't do a good job of organizing their data, and occasionally published papers that were wrong simply because they confused two images.

Would I have been more successful if fewer people (and I now believe this is a common occurrence) published fraudulent images of gels? Maybe, maybe not. But the more important thing is that everybody just went along with this. I participated in many journal clubs where folks would just flip to Figure 3, assume the gel was what the authors claimed, and proceed to agree with (or disagree with) the results and conclusions uncritically. Whereas I would spend a lot of time trying to understand what experiment was actually run, and what th e data showed.

testfoobar

a year ago

Similar - when I was younger, I would never have suspected that a scientist was committing fraud.

As I've gotten older, I understand that Charlie Munger's observation "“Show me the incentive and I will show you the outcome.” is applicable everywhere - including science.

Academic scientists' careers are driven by publishing, citations and impact. Arguably some have figured how to game the system to advance their careers. Science be damned.

asdf123qweasd

a year ago

At some point, the good scientists leave and the fraudsters start to filter for more fraudsters. If that goes on, its over- the academia has gone. Entirely. It can not grow back. Its just a building with conman in labcoats.

My suggestion stands: Give true scientists the ability to hunt fraudsters for budgets. If you hunt and nail down a fraudster, you get his funding for your research.

seanmcdirmid

a year ago

It becomes a survival bias: if people can cheat at a competitive game (or research field) and get away with it, then at the end you'll wind up with only cheaters left (everyone else stops playing).

itronitron

a year ago

I used to work with someone up until the point I realized they were so distant from any form of reality that they couldn't distinguish between fact or fiction.

Naturally, they are now the head of AI where they work.

schmidtleonard

a year ago

Similar story: computational biologist, my presentations involved statistics so people would come to me for help, and it often ended in the disappointing news of a null result. I noticed that it always got published anyway at whichever stage of analysis showed "promise." The day I saw someone P-hack their way to the front page of Nature was the day I decided to quit biology.

I still feel that my bio work was far more important than anything I've done since, but over here the work is easier, the wages are much better, and fraud isn't table stakes. Frankly in exchange for those things I'm OK with the work being less important (EDIT: that's not a swipe at software engineering or my niche in it, it's a swipe at a system that is bad at incentives).

Oh, and it turns out that software orgs have exactly the same problem, but they know that the solution is to pay for verification work. Science has to move through a few more stages of grief before it accepts this.

j-wags

a year ago

I'm mostly out now, but I would love to return to a more accountable academia. Often in these discussions it's hard to say "we need radical changes to publicly funded research and many PIs should be held accountable for dishonest work" without people hearing "I want to get rid of publicly funded research altogether and destroy the careers of a generation of trainees who were in the wrong place at the wrong time".

Even in my immediate circles, I know many industry scientists who do scientific work beyond the level required by their company, fight to publish it in journals, mentor junior colleagues in a very similar manner to a PhD advisor, and would in every way make excellent professors. There would be a stampede if these people were offered a return to a more accountable academia. Even with lower pay, longer hours, and department duties, MORE than enough highly qualified people would rush in.

A hypothetical transition to this world should be tapered. But even at the limit where academia switched overnight, trainees caught in such a transition could be guaranteed their spots in their program, given direct fellowships to make them independent of their advisor's grants, given the option to switch advisor, and have their graduation requirements relaxed if appropriate.

It's easy to hem and haw about the institutional knowledge and ongoing projects that would invariably be lost in such a transition, even if very carefully executed. But we have to consider the ongoing damage being done when, for example, biogen spends thousands of scientist-years and billions of dollars failing to make an alzheimers drug because the work was dishonest to begin with, or when generations of trainees learn that bending the truth is a little more OK each year.

nordsieck

a year ago

What's amazing to me is that journals don't require researchers to submit their raw data. At least, as far as I know.

The only option for someone who wants to double check research is to completely replicate a study, which is quite a bit more expensive than double checking the researcher's work.

mfld

a year ago

Re: the role of (gel) images as the key aspect of a publication. To me this is very understandable, as they convey the information in the most succinct way and also constitute the main data & evidence. Faking this is so bold that it seemed unlikely.

The good news IMO: more recent MolBio methods produce data that can be checked more rigorously than a gel image. A recent example where the evidence in form of DNA sequencing data is contested: https://doi.org/10.1128/mbio.01607-23

busyant

a year ago

> don't really tell you very much

???

I think this statement is either meaningless or incorrect. At the very least your conclusion is context dependent.

That being said, I ran gels back in the stone ages when you didn't just buy a stack of pre-made gels that slotted into a tank.

I had to clean my glass plates, make the polyacrylamide solution, clamp the plates together with office binder clips and make sure that the rubber gasket was water tight. So many times, the gasket seal was poor and my polyacrylamide leaked all over the bench top.

I hated running them. But when they worked, they were remarkably informative.

bafe

a year ago

Count me in the club of failed scientists. In my case it was the geosciences, I would spend hours trying to make all my analysis reproducible and statistically sound while many colleagues just published preliminary simulation results obtaining much more attention and even academic jobs. On the flip side, the time spent improving my data processing workflows led to good engineering jobs so the time wasn't entirely wasted

doctorpangloss

a year ago

> raise so many... emotions in me... and I now believe [faking gels] is a common occurrence

On the other hand, shysters always project, and this thread is full of cringe vindications about cheating or faking or whatever. As your "emotions" are probably telling you, that kind of generalization does not feel good, when it is pointed at you, so IMO, you can go and bash your colleagues all you want, but odds are the ones who found results did so legitimately.

pbreit

a year ago

As long as it's all peer reviewed!!

enugu

a year ago

Many solutions involving posting data in repositories or audits are being discussed in the comments.

But given that many people are saying that they noticed and quit academia, how about also creating a more direct 'whistleblower' type of system, where complaints (with detailed descriptions of the fraud or a general view on what one sees in terms of loose practices) goes to some research monitoring team which can then come in and verify the problems.

kjkjadksj

a year ago

Gels tell you quite a lot, its what question you are asking that is more relevant to the results being useful over the technique. Of course people lie and cheat in science. Wet lab and dry lab. So many dry lab papers for example are out there where code are supposedly available “by request” and we take the figures on faith.

TheMagicHorsey

a year ago

This is why institutions break down in the long run in any civilization. People like you, people of principle are drown out my agents acting exclusively in their own interest without ethics.

It happens everywhere.

The only solution to this is skin in the game. Without skin in the game the fraudsters fraud, the audience just naively goes along with it, and the institution collapses under the weight of lies.

BobbyTables2

a year ago

I feel this way about every flashy startup with billion dollar valuations.

It seems amazing that they are pulling off what seems impossible.

Years later, we learn they really aren’t. They unjustifiably made a name for themselves by burning VC money instead of running a successful business.

throwaway14356

a year ago

Then hiring the uninteresting gel seems preferable.

nonrandomstring

a year ago

> Would I have been more successful

What are you talking about? You _are_ successful. You're not a fraud like all those other tossers.

dennis_jeeves2

a year ago

> At the time (20+ years ago) it didn't occur to me that anybody would intentionally modify images of gels to promote the results they claimed

Fraud I suspect is only tip of the iceberg, worse still is delusion that what is taught is factually correct. A large portion of mainstream knowledge that we call 'science' is incorrect.

While fraudulent claims are relatively easy to detect, claims that are backed up by ignorance/delusion are harder to detect and challenge because often there is collective ignorance.

Quote 1: "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence"

Quote 2:"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts"

Side note: I will not offer to back up my above statements, since these are things that an individual has to learn it on their own, through healthy skepticism, intellectual integrity and inquiry.

Lionga

a year ago

Don't hate the player hate the game. Governments made scientist only survive if they show results and specifically the results they want to see. Otherwise no anymore grants and you are done. Whether the results are fake or true does not matter

"Science" nowadays is mostly BS, while the scientific method (hardly ever used in "science" nowadays) is still gold.

neom

a year ago

I'm the furthest thing from a scientist unless you count 3,000 hours of PBS spacetime, but I love science and so science/academia fraud to me, feels kinda like the worst kinda fraud you can commit. Financial fraud can cause suicides and ruin in lives, sure, but I feel like academic fraud just sets the whole of humanity back? I also feel that through my life I've (maybe wrongly) placed a great deal of respect and trust in scientists, mostly that they understand that their work is of the upmost importance and so the downstream consequences of mucking around are just too grave. Stuff like this seems to bother me more than it rationally should. Are people who commit this type of science fraud just really evil humans? Am I over thinking this? Do scientists go to jail for academic fraud?

vasco

a year ago

Pick up an old engineering book at some point, something from mid 1800's or early 1900's and you'll quickly realize that the trust people put on science isn't what it should be. The scientific method works over a long period of time, but to blindly trust a peer review study that just came out, any study, is almost as much faith as religion, specially if you're not a high level researcher in the same field and have spent a good amount of time reading their methodology yourself. If you go to the social sciences then the amount of crock that gets published is incredible.

As a quick example, any book about electricity from the early 1900's will include quite serious sections about the positive effects of electromagnetic radiation (or "EM field therapies"), teach you about different frequencies and modulations for different illnesses and how doctors are applying them. Today these devices are peddled by scammers of the same ilk as the ones that align your shakras with the right stone on your forehead.

jimbokun

a year ago

I think the error is putting trust in scientists as people, instead of putting trust in science as a methodology. The methodology is designed to rely on trusting a process, not trusting individuals, to arrive at the truth.

I guess it also reinforces the supreme importance of reproducibility. Seems like no research result should be taken seriously until at least one other scientist or group of scientists are able to reproduce the result.

And if the work isn't sufficiently defined to the point of being reproducible, it should be considered a garbage study.

LeifCarrotson

a year ago

You're far from a scientist, so it's easy for you to put scientists/academia on a pedestal.

For most of the people who end up in these scandals, this is just the day job that their various choices and random chance led up to. they're just ordinary humans responding to ordinary incentives in light of whatever consequences and risks they may or may not have considered.

Other careers, like teaching, medicine, and engineering have similar problems.

jessriedel

a year ago

As a scientist, I agree, although for not quite the reason you gave. Scientists are given tremendous freedom and resources by society (public dollars, but also private dollars like at my industry research lab). I think scientists have a corresponding higher duty for honesty.

Jobs at top institutions are worth much more than their nominal salary, as evidenced by how much those people could be making in the private sector. (They are compensated mostly in freedom and intellectual stimulation.) Unambiguously faking data, which is the sort of thing a bad actor might do to get a top job, should be considered at least as bad a moral transgression as stealing hundreds of thousands or perhaps a few million dollars.

(What is the downside? I have never once heard a researcher express feeling threatened or wary of being falsely/unjustly accused of fraud.)

kzz102

a year ago

In my view, prosecuting the bad actors alone will not fix science. Science is by its own nature a community because only a small number of people have the expertise (and university positions) to participate. A healthy scientific discipline and a healthy community are the same thing. Just like the "tough on crime" initiative alone often does not help a problematic community, just punish scientific fraud harshly will not fix the problem. Because the community is small, to catch the bad actors, you will either have insiders policing themselves, or have an non-expert outsiders rendering judgements. It's easy for well-intention-ed policing effort to turn into power struggles.

This is why I think the most effective way is to empower good actors. Ensure open debate, limit the power of individuals, and prevent over concentration of power in a small group. These efforts are harder to implement than you think because they run against our desire to have scientific superstars and celebrities, but I think they will go a long way towards building a healthy community.

madmask

a year ago

I agree with you, science fraud is terrible. It pollutes and breaks the scientific method. Enormous resources are wasted, not just by the fraudster but also by all the other well meaning scientists who base their work on that.

In my experience no, most fraudsters are not evil people, they just follow the incentives and almost non-existent disincentives. Scientist has become just a job, you find all kinds of people there.

As far as I know no-one goes to jail, worst thing possible (and very rare) is losing the job, most likely just the reputation.

photochemsyn

a year ago

It's complicated. Historically scientific fraud could be construed as 'good-intentioned' - typically a researcher in a cutting edge field might think they understood how a system worked, and wanting to be first to publish for reasons of career advancement, would cook up data so they could get their paper into print before anyone else.

Indeed, I believe many academic careers were kicked off in this manner. Where it all goes wrong is when other more diligent researchers fail to reproduce said fraudulent research - this is what brought down famous fraudster Jan Hendrik Schön in the field of plastic-based organic electronics, which involved something like 9 papers in Science and Nature. There are good books and documentaries on that one. This will only be getting worse with AI data generation, as most of those frauds were detected by banal data replication, obvious cuts and pastes, etc.

However, when you add a big financial driver, things really go off the rails. A new pharmaceutical brings investors sniffing for a big payout, and cooking data to make the patentable 'discovery' look better than it is is a strong incentive to commit egregious fraud. Bug-eyed greed makes people do foolish things.

andrewflnr

a year ago

> Stuff like this seems to bother me more than it rationally should.

It's bothering you a rational amount, actually. These people have done serious damage to lots of lives and humanity in general. Society as a whole has at least as much interest in punishing them as it does for financial fraudsters. They should burn.

tppiotrowski

a year ago

There was a period of time when science was advanced by the aristocrats who were self funded and self motivated.

Once it became a distinguished profession the incentives changed.

"When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure"

Balgair

a year ago

Generally, the fields that have a Nobel in them attract the glory hounds and therefore the fraudsters. The ones that don't, like geology or archeology for example, don't get the glory hounds.

Anytime you see champagne bottles up on a professor's top shelf with little tags for Nature publications (or something like that), then you know they are a glory hound.

When you see beer bottles in the trash, then you know they're in it for more than themselves.

Electricniko

a year ago

It seems like this could ultimately fall under the category of financial fraud, since the allegations are that he may have favorably misrepresented the results of drug trials where he was credited as an inventor of the drug that's now worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

mistercheph

a year ago

Evil is a much simpler explanation than recognizing that if you were in the same position with the same incentives, you would do the same thing. It's not just one event, it's a whole career of normalizing deviation from your values. Maybe you think you'd have morals that would have stopped you, maybe those same morals would have ensured you were never in a position to PI research like that.

mhh__

a year ago

Scientific fraud can also compound really badly because people will try to replicate it, and the easiest results to fake are usually the most expensive...

edem

a year ago

I also watched almost all episodes of PBS Spacetime. Some of them multiple times. I'm so happy that Spacetime exists and also that Matt was recruited as a host (in place of Gabe). Highly recommended channel, superb content!

dghlsakjg

a year ago

It is the same flavor of fraud as financial fraud. It is about personal gain, and avoiding loss.

This kind of fraud happens because scientists are rewarded greatly for coming up with new, publishable, interesting results. They are punished severely for failing to do that.

You could be the department's best professor in terms of teaching, but if you aren't publishing, your job is at risk at many universities.

Scientists in Academia are incentivized to publish papers. If they can take shortcuts, and get away with it, they will. That's the whole problem, that's human nature.

This is why you don't nearly as many industry scientists coming out with fraudulent papers. If Shell's scientists publish a paper, they aren't rewarded for that, if they come up with some efficient new way to refine oil they are rewarded, and they also might publish a paper if they feel like it.

wredue

a year ago

Can you go to jail for knowingly defrauding another entity out of money (such as grants). Yes. Absolutely.

Are you going to go to jail for fudging some numbers on your paper, not likely.

transcranial

a year ago

As a collective endeavor to seek out higher truth, maybe some amount of fraud is necessary to train the immune system of the collective body, so to speak, so that it's more resilient in the long-term. But too much fraud, I agree, could tip into mistrust of the entire system. My fear is that AI further exacerbates this problem, and only AI itself can handle wading through the resulting volume of junk science output.

regus

a year ago

This is pretty funny. I usually hear this kind of language when a religious person is so devastated when their priest or pastor does something wrong that it causes them to leave their religion altogether. Are you going to do the same thing for scientism?

xnx

a year ago

Science is the search for truth. Lying is anthemic to that.

brightball

a year ago

How this happens given the near reverence provided to “peer review” is another question.

eig

a year ago

This sort of behavior is only going to worsen in the coming decades as academics become more desperate. It's a prisoner's dilemma: if everyone is exaggerating their results you have to as well or you will be fired. It's even more dire for the thousands of visa students.

The situation is similar to the "Market for lemons" in cars: if the market is polluted with lemons (fake papers), you are disincentivized to publish a plum (real results), since no one can tell it's not faked. You are instead incentivized to take a plum straight to industry and not disseminate it at all. Pharma companies are already known to closely guard their most promising data/results.

Similar to the lemon market in cars, I think the only solution is government regulation. In fact, it would be a lot easier than passing lemon laws since most labs already get their funding from the government! Prior retractions should have significant negative impact on grant scores. This would not only incentivize labs, but would also incentivize institutions to hire clean scientists since they have higher grant earning potential.

jimbokun

a year ago

My recommendation is for journals to place at least equal importance to publishing replications as for the original studies.

Studies that have not been replicated should be published clearly marked as preliminary results. And then other scientists can pick those up and try to replicate them.

And institutions need to give near equal weight to replications as to original research when deciding on promotions. Should be considered every researchers responsibility to contribute to the overall field.

houston_Euler

a year ago

While Akerlof's Market for Lemons did consider cases where government intervention is necessary to preserve a market, like with health insurance markets (Medicare), he describes the "market for lemons" in the used car market as having been solved by warranties.

If someone brings a plum to a market for lemons, they can distinguish the quality of their product by offering a warranty on its purchase, something that sellers of lemons would be unwilling to do, because they want to pass the cost burden of the lemon onto the purchaser.

The full paper is fairly accessible, and worth a read.

Not sure how this could be applied to academia, one of the problems is that there can be significant gaps between perpetrating fraud and having it discovered, so the violators might still have an incentive to cheat.

pc86

a year ago

> if everyone is exaggerating their results you have to as well or you will be fired.

Is this really the case the though? Isn't the whole point of tenure (or a big selling point at least) insulating academics from capricious firings?

The big question I have is that there are names on these fraudulent papers, so why are these people still employed? If you generate fictitious data to get published, you should lose any research or teaching job you have, and have to work at McDonald's or a warehouse for the rest of your life. There are plenty of people who want to be professors that we can eliminate the ones who will lie while doing it without losing much (perhaps anything). If your job was funded by taxpayer funds there should be criminal charges associated with willfully and knowingly fabricating data, results, or methods. At that point you're literally lying in order to steal taxpayer funds, it's no different than a city manager embezzling or grabbing a stack of $20 bills out of the cash register.

fluidcruft

a year ago

I wonder if there are any studies on whether fraud increased after the Bayh-Dole Act. There's certainly fraud for prestige, that's pretty expected. But mixing in financial benefits increases the reward and brings administrators into play.

hilux

a year ago

> ... as academics become more desperate.

Yes and ... we're already there.

robwwilliams

a year ago

The incentive structures in science has been relatively stable since I entered the field in 1980 (neuroscience, developmental biology, genetics). Quality and quantity of science is extraordinary, but peer review is worse than bad. There are almost no incentives to review the work of your colleagues properly. It does not pay bills and you can make enemies easily.

But there was no golden era of science to look back on. It has always been a wonderful productive mess—much like the rest of life. As least it moves forward—and now exceedingly rapidly.

Almost unbelievably, there are far worse crimes than fraud that we completely ignore.

There are crimes associated with social convention in science of the type discussed by Karl Herrup with respect to 20 years of misguided focus on APP and abeta fragments in Alzheimer’s disease:

https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262546010/how-not-to-study-a-di...

This could be called the “misdemeanors of scientific social inertia”. Or the “old boys network”.

There is also an invisible but insidious crime of data evaporation. Almost no funders will fund data preservation. Even genomics struggles but is way ahead in biomedical research. Neuroscience is pathetic in this regard (and I chaired the Society for Neuroscience’s Neuroinformatics Committee).

I have a talk on this socio-political crime of data evaporation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZhnXU8gV44&embeds_referring...

abigail95

a year ago

you don't need regulation for a stable durable goods market. income and credit shocks cause turnover of good quality stock in the secondary market.

dyauspitr

a year ago

It could also have a chilling effect on a lot of breakthrough research. If people are willing to put out what they mostly think is right, it might set back progress decades as well.

Lionga

a year ago

BS governmental desperation to show any "result" (even if it is fake) is what brought us here. As scientist have to show more fake results to get more grants.

Removing the government from science could help, not the other way around.

AndrewKemendo

a year ago

If I have learned anything over 40 years, is that the number of people who actually live in a way consistent with hypothesis testing, data collection, evidence evaluation framework required to have scientific confidence in future action or even claims is effectively zero

That includes people who consider themselves professional scientists, PhD‘s authors, leaders etc.

The only people I know who live “scientifically” consistently are people considered “neurodivergent”, along the autism-adhd-odd spectrum, which forces them into creating the type of mechanisms that are actually scientific and as required by their conditions.

Nevertheless, we should expect better from people; and on average need to do better in aligning how they think to how science, when robustly demonstrated, demonstrates with staggering predictability how the world works, compared to all other methods of understanding the universe.

The fact that the people carrying the torch of science don’t live up to the standard is expected - hence peer review.

This is an indictment of the incentives and pace at which bad science is revealed (like in this case) is always too slow, but science is the one place where eventually you’re going to either get exposed as a fraud or never followed in the first place.

There’s no other philosophy that has a higher bar of having to conform with all versions of reality forever.

physPop

a year ago

I would just like to point out the irony of claiming that people live in a way inconsistent with scientific rigour, based solely on personal experience.

molave

a year ago

It's disheartening to think that the virtues you are told to have as a kid are considered "weak sauce" once you are an adult.

cdaringe

a year ago

> effectively zero

That feels extreme. Zero is a cold, dark, lonely number. Maybe it’s correct—i dont know. Ive worked on only a couple of projects in this space, and while the incentives certainly involved publishing, i dont feel that it equated to abandoning the SciMethod. Instead, it was the cost to pay for the ability to continue doing science.

Can you really stand by ZERO? How about a 1%. Meet me somewhere above zero, or, if you’d be so kind, make a compelling case why were truly rock bottom.

booleandilemma

a year ago

It's funny you mention autism, adhd, and similar. It's something I believe the science is quite shaky on.

I've met so many people who self-diagnose with those "conditions", because, I think, they want the world to feel sorry for them, or something.

rebanevapustus

a year ago

I was the victim of a pretty bizarre super in-your-face academic theft.

Someone snooped a half-finished draft of mine off GitHub and...actually got it published in a real journal: https://forbetterscience.com/2024/05/29/who-are-you-matthew-...

In spite of having a full commit log (with GitHub verified commits!!!) of both the code AND the paper, both arxiv and the journal didn't seem to care or bother at all.

Anyhow, I highly recommend reading the for better science blog. It's incredible how rampant fraud truly is. This applies to multiple nobel prize winners as well. It's nuts.

cdaringe

a year ago

Can you speak more to the “not caring at all” bit? I believe you, but how did you engage them? Did you end up publishing your work eventually?

forbetterscience seems like a good idea, but the writing style, the images, and even the about page gave me pause on if this is a reliable site for trustworthy science commentary

tomrod

a year ago

Huh. Sounds like the research needs to be forked to several different hosting providers, preferably ones not based in the US with its insane DCMA laws.

BenFranklin100

a year ago

As a scientist who has published in the neuroscience space, I don’t what to say other than the incentives in academia are all messed up. Back in the late 90s, NIH made a big push on ‘translational research”, that is, researchers were strongly encouraged to demonstrate their research had immediate, real world benefits or applications. Basic research and the careful, plodding research needed to nail down and really answer a narrow question was discouraged as academic navel-gazing.

On one hand, it seems the push for immediate real world relevance is a good thing. We fund research in order that society will benefit, correct? On the other hand, since publications and ultimately funding decisions are based on demonstrating real world relevance, it’s little surprise scientists are now highly incentivized to hype their research, p-hack their results, or in rare cases, commit outright fraud in an attempt to demonstrate this relevance.

Doing research that has immediate translational benefits is a tall order. As a scientist you might accomplish this feat a few times in your career if you’re lucky. The rest of the corpus of your work should consist of the careful, mundane research the actual translational research will be based upon. Unfortunately it’s hard to get that foundational, basic, research published and funded nowadays, hence the messed-up incentives.

derbOac

a year ago

There's evidence that the turning point was in the 90s but I suspect the real underlying problem is indirect funds as a revenue stream for universities, combined with the imposition of a for-profit business model expectation from politicians at the state and other levels. The expectation changed from "we fund universities to teach and do research" to "universities should generate their own income", which isn't really possible with research, so federal funding filled the gap. This lead to the indirect fund firehose of cash, pyramid scheme labs, and so forth and so on. It sort of became a feedback loop, and now we are where we are today.

Translational research is probably part of it but I think it's part of a broader hype and fad machine tied to medicine, which has its own problems related to rent-seeking, regulatory capture, and monopolies, among other things. It's one giant behemoth of corruption fed by systemic malstructurings, like a biomedical-academic complex of problematic intertwined feedback loops.

I say this as someone whose entire career has very much been part of all of it at some level.

ubj

a year ago

The Retraction Watch website does a good job of reporting on various cases of retractions and scientific misconduct [1].

Like many others, I hope that a greater focus on reproducibility in academic journals and conferences will help reduce the spread of scientific misconduct and inaccuracy.

[1]: https://retractionwatch.com/

A_D_E_P_T

a year ago

There may be a dark twist to this story.

The expose article writes:

> "UCSD neuroscientist Edward Rockenstein, who worked under Masliah for years, co-authored 91 papers that contain questioned images, including 11 as first author. He died in 2022 at age 57."

They say nothing else about this. But looking at Rockenstein's obituary, indications are that it was suicide. (It was apparently sudden, at quite a young age, and there are many commenters on his memorial page "hoping that his soul finds peace," and expressing similar sentiments.)

hilux

a year ago

I shared this article with an MD/PhD friend who has done research at two of the three most famous science universities in America ... and she said "this [not this guy, this phenomenon] is why I left science."

Maybe it's like elite running - everyone who stays competitive above a certain level is cheating, and if you want to enjoy watching the sport, you just learn to look the other way. Except that the stakes for humanity are much higher in science than in sport.

hovden

a year ago

Blatant fraud is rare in physics, engineering, chemistry. Lying is rare. Quality is high at the highest institutions of physics and chemistry. Exaggerated claims occur, but much less than in day to day life. Top visibility work is quickly reproduced. Reproduction is the essence of science.

hprotagonist

a year ago

> It seems like a strange thing to take someone with a long and respected career and subject them to what would essentially be a Western blot and photomicrograph audit before offering them a big position.

This is absolutely something that we should routinely be doing, though.

majormajor

a year ago

It's pretty similar to the level of distrust in the software engineering job interview process.

Pick your poison, to some extent. Better would be to not have to do it after-the-fact, but to vet better at every intermediate step, but it's hard. Just a very difficult people problem.

dr_kiszonka

a year ago

I agree. To their defense, he had a few hundred papers published before joining, according to PubMed, and was a leader in his field: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=Masliah%20E&filter=dat...

My concern is that with AI getting better and easier to use (e.g., in Photoshop) fraud will be extremely hard to detect.

We might need to re-think how research is done and results verified.

BigGreenJorts

a year ago

yeah it sounds a little bit absurd to me. It's just basic due diligence. You don't not run a background check on a potential employee just bc their resume looks good and they got a reference. In those cases you still go, "Annoying we have to wait because we want this person on board NOW and it's a fairly shallow investigation that 99% of the time doesn't reveal anything even if there is something, but it's the standard procedure."

clpm4j

a year ago

I'm not a researcher or academic, but when I think of roughly how long it takes me to do meaningful deep work and produce a project of any significance, I'm struck by the fact that his 800 papers isn't a red flag? Even if you allocate ~3 months per paper, that's over 200 years of work. Is it common for academics to produce research papers in a matter of days?

From the article: Masliah appeared an ideal selection. The physician and neuropathologist conducted research at the University of California San Diego (UCSD) for decades, and his drive, curiosity, and productivity propelled him into the top ranks of scholars on Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s disease. His roughly 800 research papers, many on how those conditions damage synapses, the junctions between neurons, have made him one of the most cited scientists in his field.

DevX101

a year ago

It's kind of like, when reporters say a CEO built [insert ridiculously complex product here], ex: ascribing the success of OpenAI to Sam Altman, or Apple to Steve Jobs. Sure there were important in setting the direction, and allocating resources but they didn't actually do the work.

Similarly, the heads of famous science labs have lots of talented scientists who want to work with them. The involvement of a lab director varies wildly, but for the hyper productive, famous ones, it's largely the director curating great people, providing scientific advice, and setting a general research direction. The lab director gets named on all these papers that get generated from this process.

So 800 papers isn't necessarily a red flag if the director is great at fundraising and has lots of graduate students/post docs doing the heavy lifting.

leephillips

a year ago

Among other things my physics career taught me: anyone who is listed as an author on more than 200 papers is almost definitely a plagiarist, in the sense of a manager who adds his or her name to the papers of the underlings in his or her lab. When I was still bothering to go to conferences I would sometimes have fun with them (the male variety is easy to spot: look for the necktie) by asking detailed questions about the methodology of the research. They never have any idea how the work was actually done.

dakiol

a year ago

Similar to

> Founder, CEO, and chief engineer of SpaceX. CEO and product architect of Tesla, Inc. Owner, CTO and Executive Chairman of X (formerly Twitter). Founder of The Boring Company, X Corp., and xAI. Co-founder of Neuralink, OpenAI, Zip2, and X.com (part of PayPal)

It can only be a fraud.

stephenbez

a year ago

People are listed as authors if they advised or contributed to the papers of their grad students or other people in their lab.

idunnoman1222

a year ago

The amazing part about this to me is that the only reason the authors were caught is image manipulation. The fraud in numbers and text? Not so easy to uncover.

Prediction: papers stop using pictures entirely

gus_massa

a year ago

When I read a paper, I first look at the images and tables. A paper (in this area) without images would be very suspictious.

slashdave

a year ago

GenAI will make faking western blots fantastically easy

daedrdev

a year ago

Is there no liability for the author? There are billions of dollars wasted in drug trials and research that can be tied to this fraud. Surely they can face some legal issues due to this?

jeremyjh

a year ago

Not only are there billions of dollars wasted, there are many, many lives wasted. If the billions had gone in a direction that was actually promising, maybe there would be treatments that would have saved millions of person-years of quality lifetime. This person is basically a mass-murderer.

hansonkd

a year ago

Like all things in life that have risks of fraud, negligence or potential failure, insurance could be the answer.

Want to publish in a peer reviewed paper? Well then your institution or you should take out a bond or insurance policy that guarantees your work is accurate. The insurance amount would fluctuate based on how big of impact this study could have. Is it a drug that will be consumed by millions? Big insurance policy. Is it a behavioral study without much risk... small insurance policy.

Is a a person in an institution found caught committing fraud, well now then all papers from that institution now have higher premiums.

Did you sign off on a peer reviewed paper that was fraud? Well now your premiums are going up also.

Insurance costs too high to publish? Well then keep doing research until the underwriters are satisfied that your work isn't fraud and adjust the premiums down.

It adds a direct near-term economic incentive to publish honestly and punishes those that abuse the system.

mmooss

a year ago

I was thinking about it: If I come across someone seriously injured, try to help them, and accidentally hurt them, I'm protected (in many places) by Good Samaritan laws.

But if a health care professional does the same thing, and does something negligent, then they are usually liable. They are professionals and are held to a different standard. Similarly, that's why lawyers keep writing: this is not legal advice and you are not my client.

Perhaps a professional in science should have higher standards. Obviously they shouldn't be sued for being wrong - that would destroy science, disregard the scientific method's means to address inaccuracy, and go against science's nature as the means to develop new knowledge. But intentionally deceiving people perhaps should be illegal and/or create liability: When you publish something, people depend on its fundamental honesty and will act on it.

cj

a year ago

Here’s a deterrent:

1) revoke all of their academic accreditations and degrees

2) put them on a public “do not publish” list permanently banning them from being named on any paper in a journal

mike_hearn

a year ago

The US has the Office for Research Integrity which can prosecute scientific fraud cases, but it only does a handful of cases per year.

To put the scale of this problem in perspective, the ORI was set up in the 1970s after Congress became concerned at widespread reports of scientific fraud. It clearly didn't work, but hangs around regardless.

It's ultimately a culture problem. Until academics have the same level of respect as ordinary corporate employees, you're going to get judges and juries who let them off scott free.

csaid81

a year ago

He could be prosecuted under current fraud laws, but this hardly ever happens.

I wrote a blog post on how to make this easier, including a new criminal statute specifically tailored for scientific fraud. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41672599

abigail95

a year ago

any lawyers know if it's wire fraud to get paid to do academic research and lie about the results?

ls612

a year ago

The line between outright fraud, bad methods correctly implemented, messy data, and implementation bugs is fuzzy. Trying to criminalize anything not very very clearly #1 quickly turns into a case of “show me the man and I’ll show you the crime”. You think groupthink in academia is bad just wait until professional disputes lead to jail time for the loser.

tux3

a year ago

There are unfortunately very rarely consequences for academic fraud. It's not just that we only catch a small fraction — mostly the most brazen image manipulation — but these cases of blatant fraud happen again and again, to resounding silence.

Ever so rarely, there may be an opaque, internal investigation. Mostly, it seems that academia has a desire to not make any waves, keep up appearances, and let the problem quiet down on its own.

IshKebab

a year ago

The people doing the investigation have a vested interest in keeping it quiet.

It's like the old quote... "If you commit fraud as an RA that's your problem. If you commit fraud as the head of department that's the university's problem."

neilv

a year ago

And occasionally a grad student who discovers academic dishonesty, and complains internally (naively trusting administrators to have humility and integrity), has their career ended.

I suppose a silver lining to all the academic fraud exposés of the last few years is that more grad students and faculty now know that this is a thing, and one that many will try to cover up, so trust no one.

Another silver lining might be that fellow faculty are more likely to believe an accusation, and (if they are one of the awful people) less likely to think they can save funding/embarrassment/friend by neutralizing the witness.

(ProTip: If the success of your dishonesty-reporting approach is predicated on an internal administrator having humility and integrity, realize that those qualities are the opposite of what has advanced a lot of academic careers.)

tokai

a year ago

Only fix I can see is making scientific fraud criminal. But it has to be straight fraud and not just bad science.

I can't imagine any other vocation where you can take public and private money, then cheat the stakeholders into thinking they got what they payed for, only to just walk away from it all when you are found out. Picture a contractor claiming to have build a high-rise for a developer, doctored photos of it, and then just go oops moneys all gone with no consequences when the empty lot is discovered years later.

jfengel

a year ago

It seems like a strange thing to take someone with a long and respected career and subject them to what would essentially be a Western blot and photomicrograph audit before offering them a big position

I really feel stupid asking experienced developers to do FizzBuzz. Not one has ever failed. But I have heard tons of anecdotes of utterly incompetent developers being weeded out by it.

ta8645

a year ago

Everyone seems to acknowledge this is a problem, but refuse to believe it actually affects anything when it comes time to "trust the science". Yes, science is corrupted, but all the results can be trusted, and the correct answer is always reached in the end. So, is it really a problem? Or not?

mistermann

a year ago

Another example of the phenomenon where people can realize something when considering it from an abstract perspective but not at a realtime object level is psychological bias and imperfect rationality. If the topic of discussion is an article about bias, rare is the person who will deny the phenomenon, and many enthusiastically admit to suffering from the problem themselves. But if the topic of discussion is something else and one was to suggest the phenomenon may be in play: opposite reaction. During realtime cognition, that knowledge is inaccessible.

I honestly think if some serious attention was paid to this and various other real world paradoxes around us, we could actually make some forward progress on these problems for a change.

eig

a year ago

A key skill for any scientist is to differentiate quality work and science that can be easily faked.

The Alzheimer's and Parkinson's fields are too easy to fake, and too difficult to replicate. The new ideas are only ~20 years old. Big pharma companies are understandably wary of published papers.

When people say "trust the science", they often refer to things like masks, and antibiotics, and vaccines. That science is hundreds of years old and have been replicated thousands of times.

TL;DR: Some science should absolutely be trusted, some shouldn't. It's not surprising that you can't make blanket statements on a superfield ranging from germ theory to cold fusion.

consteval

a year ago

It's a matter of how established the science actually is.

Questioning novel science is one thing but questioning if the Earth is flat or Germ Theory is another thing all together. The problem with skeptics is that they sometimes hang around conspiracists.

It's hard to not discount these people when the person next to them thinks black people are biologically inferior. Then when those skeptics don't distance themselves or don't explicitly condemn those bad actors, it brings to question if their positions are born of skepticism or some strange prejudice, and that they merely constructed the cover of skepticism to hide their strange prejudices.

For example, during the Covid pandemic there was a lot of questioning around masks. In hindsight, the answer is obvious: it doesn't really matter if masks were or were not effective, because they're essentially free to wear. Even in the worst case, nobody is actually hurt.

But there were many, maybe millions, of mask deniers who would simply refuse to wear them. They were doing this because of institutional distrust and political motivations, not because they truly believed the masks were dangerous. And this is the trouble: these people are skeptics, but they're skeptics with an end-goal of political destabilization, i.e. they're dangerous.

When you mix it all together, which people often do to themselves, it's discredits the very thought process.

aliasxneo

a year ago

I wonder if there's evidence of fraud _increasing_ or if the detection methods are just improving.

In my last workplace, self-evaluation (and, therefore, self-promotion) was mandatory on a semi-annual cycle and heavily tied to compensation. It's not surprising that it became a breeding ground for fraud. Outside of a strong moral conviction (which I would argue is in declining), these sorts of systems will likely always be targets for fraudulent behavior.

hn_throwaway_99

a year ago

You're definitely seeing the consequences of papers being written in the past when large-scale fraudulent analysis wasn't that feasible, and now you have all this tech that can scoop it up and look for those "needle in a haystack" instances of fraud.

I'm thinking about all the plagiarism issues uncovered with the publications of the former Harvard president Claudine Gay (and, similarly, of Neri Oxman, the wife of Bill Ackman, who basically was exposed due to Ackman's campaign against Gay). I looked over all the instances of plagiarism in detail, and, while not excusing them, they seemed like less of egregious theft of others' ideas and more like laziness/sloppiness. But I could easily imagine that laziness/sloppiness being fostered by an idea of "How could someone really check this word-for-word anyway?"

Well, now we have tech that makes it almost trivially easy to expose this type of misconduct.

throwawaysleep

a year ago

I’ve hacked even peer reviews. Nobody wants to really write yours, so offer to do it for them.

Obviously making it mindlessly laudatory.

GeekyBear

a year ago

I've said so many times, but we need to go back to a system where it is possible to make a career in science and get funding for replicating other people's work to verify the results.

mchannon

a year ago

This leads to a tragedy of the commons. Say a random nation, say, Sweden, devotes 100% of their governmental and university research budgets toward replication.

70% of the studies they attempt are successfully replicated. 20% are inconclusive or equivocal. 10% are clearly debunked.

Now the world is richer, but Sweden? No return on investment for the Swedes, other than perhaps a little advanced notice on what hot new technologies their sovereign funds and investors ought not to invest in.

A bloc of nations, say NAFTA/CAFTA-DR, or the European Union, might be more practical.

That's the carrot. As for the stick, bad lawyers can get disbarred, bad doctors can get "unboarded". Some similar sort of international funding ban/blacklist for bad researchers would be useful.

photochemsyn

a year ago

Anecdotally, during my (fairly short-lived) academic career, in which I did research with three different groups, 2/3 of them were engaging in fraudulent research practices. Unfortunately the one solid researcher I worked for was in a field I wasn't all that interested in continuing in, and as a naive young person who believed in the myth of academic freedom and didn't really understand the funding issue, I jumped ship to another field, and found myself in a cesspool of data manipulation, inflated claims, and all manner of dishonest skullduggery.

It all comes down to lab notebooks and data policies. If there is no system for archiving detailed records of experimental work, if data is recorded with pencils so it can later be erased and changed, if the PI isn't in the habit of regularly auditing the world of grad students and postdocs with an eye on rigor and reproduciblity, then you should turn around and walk out the door immediately.

As to why this situation has arisen, I think the corporatization of American academics is at fault. If a biomedical researcher can float a false claim for a few years, they can spin their research off to a startup and then sell that startup to a big pharmaceutical conglomerate. If it fails to pan out in further clinical trials, well, that's life. Cooking the data to make it look attractive to an investor - in the almost completely unregulated academic environment - is a game that many bright-eyed eager beavers are currently playing.

As supporting evidence, look at mathematical and astronomical research, the most fraud-free areas of academics. There's no money to be made in studying things like galactic collisions or exoplanets, the data is all in the public domain (eventually), and with mathematics, you can't really cook up fraudulent proofs that will stand the test of time.

doctorpangloss

a year ago

> ...[bio people make money by] spin their research off to a startup... ...mathematical and astronomical research [is] fraud-free...

You are talking about a part of the academy that relative to medicine, so few people do.

Show up to a bank looking like someone who knows math, and they'll cut you a huge check. Is that not fraud?

mmooss

a year ago

> As supporting evidence, look at mathematical and astronomical research

Is there evidence of the fraud levels in those fields?

Aloisius

a year ago

I imagine how common fraud is has more to do with the relative number of researchers in a field and the chance of getting caught.

Sure money could be a factor, but the desire for prestige can motivate people just as easily.

mncharity

a year ago

> mathematical and astronomical research, the most fraud-free areas of academics. There's no money to be made

So we're systemically safeguarding the quality of astronomy research, by setting up a gradient (at MIT: restaurant catering for business talks, pizza for CS, stale cookies for astronomy) to draw off some flavors of participants and thus concentrate others?

jboggan

a year ago

When I was in my doctoral program I had some pretty promising early results applying network analysis to metabolic networks. My lab boss/PI was happy to advertise my work and scheduled a cross-departmental talk to present my research in front of ~100 professors or so. While I was making a last-minute slide for my presentation I realized one chart looked a little off and I started looking into the raw data. I soon realized that I had a bug in my code that invalidated the last 12 months of calculations run on our HPC cluster. My conclusions were flat out wrong and there was nothing to salvage from the data. I went to my lab boss the night before the talk and told him to cancel it and he just told me to lie and present it anyways. I didn't think that was moral or scientifically sound and I refused. It permanently damaged my professional relationship with him.

No one else I talked to seemed particularly concerned about this, and I realized that a lot of people around me were bowing to pressure to fudge results here and there to keep up the cycle of publicity, results, and funding that the entire academic enterprise relied upon. It broke a lot of the faith I had been carrying in science as an institution, at least as far as it is practiced in major American research universities.

mike_hearn

a year ago

Coding errors are a really common source of fraud unfortunately. You did the right thing but the vast majority don't. Given a choice between admitting the grant money was wasted, the exciting finding isn't real, everyone who cited your work should retract their papers or just covering it up, the pressure to do the latter is enormous.

During COVID I talked to a guy who used to do computational epidemiology. He came to me because I'd written about the fraud that's endemic in that field and wanted to get stuff off his chest. He was a research programmer, assisting scientists. One of the stories he told involved checking the code for a model written in FORTRAN. He discovered it was mis-using an FFI and using pointer values in equations instead of the dereferenced values. Everything the program had ever calculated was garbage. He checked and it had been used in hundreds of papers. After emailing the authors with a bug report, he got a reply half an hour later saying the papers had been checked and the results didn't change so nothing needed to be done.

Little known fact: the COVID model that drove lockdowns in the UK and USA was nothing but bugs. None of the numbers it produced can be replicated. When people pointed out that this was a problem academics went on the attack, claimed none of the criticism was legitimate because it didn't come from experts, and of course simp journalists went along with all of it. They got away with it completely and will probably do it again in future. Even in this thread you can see people defending COVID science as the good stuff! It was all riddled with fraud.

Part of the issue is that scientists are mostly self taught coders who aren't interested in coding. They frequently use a standard of: if it looks right, it is right. The whole thing becomes a circular exercise in reinforcing their priors.

shusaku

a year ago

> My conclusions were flat out wrong and there was nothing to salvage from the data.

Wow that’s pretty crazy. I have to say many times in my career I’ve been writing a paper and realized “** there’s a bug”, and had to redo everything. But the overall conclusion never changed because the idea was grounded from several different angles(usually the pieces fit together even better). One bug might invalidate your result, but even if your code was correct the underlying assumptions behind the code could be wrong! I think the real issue was your boss wasn’t active enough in your work to make it robust to coding mistakes.

aetherspawn

a year ago

It’s time that someone starts a thing similar in appearance to GitHub, but for science (datasets, images, calculations, scripts) and then, if journals required it, it just might get traction and make fraud science easy to spot.

Edit: found this article which says everything I wanted to say but couldn’t put into words. https://slate.com/technology/2017/04/we-need-a-github-for-ac...

Add another aspect here that LaTeX is a bit outdated in 2024 (I know that’s controversial! Sorry) and that we can do a lot better for digesting and displaying information than A4 sheets of paper, for example responsiveness, audit/comment logs/references to individual paragraphs/revision logs, and the ability to click figures and see underlying data or high resolution copies. This would be great in a web-based editor medium. Also the ability to “fork” a paper would be fantastic. And to automatically track and generate references, then roll it up as back/forward reference analytics for the authors so they can see impact.

jahewson

a year ago

> Add another aspect here that LaTeX is a bit outdated in 2024 (I know that’s controversial! Sorry)

I met Leslie Lamport seven or eight years ago and asked him what a completely modern LaTeX might look like. He replied “well, we won’t be using PDFs in twenty years” and so it would need to be something completely different. Something interactive, with depth. Remembering, of course, to focus on quality content first and quality presentation second.

In a world with LLMs, this question becomes ever more interesting - why write a literature review if one can be generated?

Optimal_Persona

a year ago

I'm surprised that people are surprised by science being done in non-scientific ways.

I got a taste of this in my high school honors biology class. I decided to do a survey of redwing blackbirds in my town. I had a great time, there was a cemetery across the street from my house with a big pond, where 6-8 males hung out. I was excited when later in the season several females also arrived and took up residence.

I eagerly wrote up my results in a paper. I thought I did "A" level work but was distressed when the teacher gave me B- or C+. She said "My husband and I are birdwatchers who have published papers on redwing mating habits in the area, and we haven't seen any females this year. Neither did one of your classmates who watched redwings in her neighborhood." While she did not directly in writing accuse me of fraud, she strongly implied it.

I told her to grab her binoculars and hang out at the cemetery one morning. She declined, as she was a published authority and didn't need to actually observe with her own eyes. IIRC I had photos but they were from faraway with a Kodak Instamatic (this was the mid-'80s), so she didn't accept those as evidence.

I often wonder if my life would have gone in a different direction if I had a science teacher who actually followed the scientific method of direct observation! It didn't come easy to me, but I was very interested in science before this showed me clearly that science is just another human endeavor, replete with bias, ego, horseshit, perverse incentives, and gatekeeping.

mistercheph

a year ago

Scale this experience out to tens of thousands of young people. These kinds of people should not be teaching! A good teacher is capable of fearlessly admitting to a room of children that they were wrong and the students were right, or better yet that they have no idea what the answer is!

We have done a great disservice to human intellect to have mistaken the gift that empiricism gives of predicting the world, with knowledge of the world itself of which we possess almost nil.

nabla9

a year ago

In the future those who commit fraud are not likely leave trace in Western blot and photomicrograph audit.

When the experiments are significant, double blind is not enough. You need external auditors when conducting experiments. Preferably separate team making experiments from those who design them.

mustang-med

a year ago

My career has been in this space (medical research, not neuroscience) and I honestly cannot fathom how this happened. I don't understand how a researcher can wake up one day, manipulate data, and then show it to others. I feel bad for everyone's time that was wasted in building off this research, likely other's careers were chartered based on the basis of this research. What a shame.

ak_111

a year ago

What I don't get is that people claim that the incentives are skewed because highly cited paper get you the top jobs. However, assume that a significant subset of the citation are citing because they require the fraudulent result, then this will increase the chance that it would be eventually exposed... and quickly.

That is assume that person publishes results that: "factor X seems to lead to outcome Y". Many other scientists will then start trying to establish the low-hanging fruit result: "something that looks like factor X seems to lead something that looks like outcome Y". In other words they will be performing a sort of replication but in a novel way. If the result is fraudulent, then none of these results will materialise. In other words I don't get how a paper can be fraudulent AND highly-cited without escaping scrutiny, unless we are talking of a fraud mafia.

Here I am using the field of pure mathematics as a mental model. Assume a person publishes a mathematical result with a flawed proof that escapes scrutiny. If this result is used by sufficient number of mathematicians (especially the lemmas used to prove the theorem) then fairly quickly it will end up generating self contradictory results.

themanmaran

a year ago

For all the complaints about AI generated content showing up in scientific journals, I'm exited for the flip side, where an LLM can review massive quantities of scientific publications for inaccuracies/fraud.

Ex: Finding when the exact same image appears in multiple publications, but with different captions/conclusions.

The evidence in this case came from one individual willing to volunteer hundreds of hours producing a side by side of all the reports. But clearly that doesn't scale.

nostrademons

a year ago

I'm hoping it won't have the same results as AI Detectors for schoolwork, which have marked many legitimate papers as fraud, ruining several students' lives in the process. One even marked the U.S. Constitution as written by AI [1].

It's fraud all the way down, where even the fraud detectors are fraudulent. Similar story to the anti-malware industry, where software bugs in security software like CrowdStrike, Sophos, or Norton cause more damage than the threats they prevent against.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/comments/11ha4qo/gptzero_an...

brink

a year ago

> For all the complaints about AI generated content showing up in scientific journals, I'm exited for the flip side, where an LLM can review massive quantities of scientific publications for inaccuracies/fraud.

How would this work? AI can't even detect AI generated content reliably.

lkrubner

a year ago

How would that be possible? Novelty is a known weakness of the LLMs and ideally the only things published in peer-reviewed journals are novel.

layer8

a year ago

LLMs might find some specific indications of possible fraud, but then fraudsters would just learn to avoid those. LLMs won’t be able to detect when a study or experiment isn’t reproducible.

SubiculumCode

a year ago

This is terribly terribly frustrating. For every one of these cheats there are hundreds of honest, extremely hard-working ETHICAL scientists who toil 60 hours a week doing the thing they love. It is also terribly frustrating that, being human after all, smooth talkers with a confident stride, an easy smile, eager to shake hands can and do quickly climb the academic ladder, especially the administrative latter. This makes me terribly sad.

chrisjj

a year ago

> For every one of these cheats there are hundreds of honest, extremely hard-working ETHICAL scientists

Every one of these /discovered/ cheats.

Remember this particular cheat was one of your ethicals until a few moments ago.

briandear

a year ago

And in the behavioral and social “sciences,” the fraud is just off the charts. If psychologists wanted to prove that healing crystals worked — if that was the cause du jour — there’d be journals filled to the brim with “research” “proving” their efficacy.

I spent almost 10 years of my life as a founder of a mental health technology startup and the day we got acquired was a huge relief — I could finally get out of that industry — an industry that is much more about academic politics than actually solving anything. Seeing the maneuverings behind the scenes of the DSM-V, diagnostic codes, etc., was profound enough to destroy any idealism I might have felt towards that industry. (And yes, it’s an industry.)

Luckily in fields such as climate science or virology, there is never fraud. Good thing too since a lot of our governmental policies result from those fields. (And yes, that is sarcasm.)

“Science” feels very much like the Catholic Church — many people with good intentions, but there have been enough people participating in bad things that it poisons the entire institution and degrades whatever little faith people might have had remaining.

Follow the science indeed.

wg0

a year ago

On a tangent, this video[0] from Sabine Hossenfelder about academics in general is eye opening. In comments, veritasium[1] agrees:

>After finishing my PhD I went to a university-led session on ‘What Comes Next.’ What I heard sounded a lot like “now, you beg for money.” It was so depressing to think about all the very clever people in that room who had worked so very hard only to find out they had no financial security and would be spending most of their days asking for money. I realised that even what I thought of as the ‘safe path’ was uncertain so I may as well go after what I truly want. That led me here.

EDIT: Typos

[0]. https://youtu.be/LKiBlGDfRU8

[1]. https://www.youtube.com/@veritasium

tempodox

a year ago

I can't manage to be really surprised. We already know many people will cheat when the incentives are right. And when the law of the land is “publish or perish”, then some will publish by any means necessary. Thinking “this subsegment of society is so honorable, they won't cheat” would be incredibly naive.

honksillet

a year ago

Don’t worry. The next generation will use generative algorithms to make fake images that are indistinguishable from the real deal.

Molitor5901

a year ago

But if the NIH had done that in 2016, they wouldn't be in the position they're in now, would they? How many people do we need to check? How many figures do we have to scrutinize? What a mess.

This is the core problem with science today. Everyone is trying desperately to publish as much, and as fast, as they can. Quantity over quality. That quantity dictates jobs, fellowships, grants, and careers. Dare I saw we have a "doping" problem in science and not enough controls. Especially when it comes to "some" countries feverish output of papers that have little to no scientific value, cannot be replicated, full of errors, but at least it's published and they can get a job.

For a long time the numbers have been manipulated and continue to be so, seemingly due to national pride.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of...

https://www.science.org/content/article/china-rises-first-pl...

Scholars disagree about the best methodology for measuring publications’ impact, however, and other metrics suggest the United States is still ahead—but barely.

sva_

a year ago

> There's also a proposed Alzheimer's therapy called cerebrolysin, a peptide mixture derived from porcine brain tissue. An Austrian company (Ever) has run some small inconclusive trials on it in human patients and distributes it to Russia and other countries (it's not approved in the US or the EU). But the eight Masliah papers that make the case for its therapeutic effects are all full of doctored images, too.

> cerebrolysin

This was discussed here recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41239161

Ekaros

a year ago

I am thinking if some type bounty program which would take sufficient proof on fraud would work. Sadly I don't think anyone will fund it. And those participating likely won't be taken well in the circles...

huitzitziltzin

a year ago

Interestingly this and other cases like it suggest that one of the most valuable skill some scientists have is photoshop.

frowin

a year ago

As a scientist, I'm so glad that we're forced to publish all our primary/secondary data along with the publication itself. It's stored in a repository which is "locked" when the DOI (digital object identifier) is generated. Overall, the publishing process is tedious and frustrating, but this extra work is crucial and cases like this makes that very clear. However, in most of the recent cases you didn't even need to look at the data as even the publication itself shows the misconduct.

sharpshadow

a year ago

Duplication of the same image with different captions about armed conflicts is a technique mainstream news likes too.

dimgl

a year ago

> But if the NIH had done that in 2016, they wouldn't be in the position they're in now, would they? How many people do we need to check? How many figures do we have to scrutinize?

All of them

woliveirajr

a year ago

Why worry about fraud, deception and misleadings using AI when we have the old kind of fraud?

Or, in the other hand, now you don't have to manipulate images, you can just generate the ones you need.

user

a year ago

[deleted]

temporallobe

a year ago

I personally know two PhDs who faked a large portion of their data in order to complete the dissertation process. The reality is that you can get stuck in the research phase because genuine, large sample-size quantitative data is often extremely difficult if not impossible to obtain, and in the cases I personally know, they simply mocked it in a realistic way. And there’s no way to know since the surveys are often anonymous.

yawnxyz

a year ago

Reminder that these people are only caught because they photoshopped Western blots.

Even more widespread is when PIs just throw out data that don't agree with their hypothesis, and make you do it again until the numbers start making sense.

It's atrocious, but so common that if you're not doing this, you're considered dumb or weak and not going to make it.

Many PIs end up mentally justify this kind of behavior (need to publish / grant deadline / whatever) — even at the protest of most of the lab members.

Those who refuse to re-roll their results — those who want to be on the right side of science — get fired and black balled from the field.

And this is at the big famous universities you've all heard of

tho23i44234234

a year ago

Technical/Academic people might hate "influecer" culture for its crassness, but whenever fame/popularity is the primary goal, this is the only social dynamic.

People are not outraged in academia that the primary goal is fame/popularity (rather than knowledge, technical ability), they're outraged that someone is cheating in this game to get ahead.

This is happening across the spectrum tbh, as the world becomes increasingly monocultural and winner-takes-it-all social schema. People talk about anthopocene, but look at human social cultures : the millions of ways of living (with dignity mind you) sustained by < 1B population from as late as a 100 years back is now down to 1 or 2 at best.

In such a vast pool, this kind of stuff is not only bound to happen, but is the optimal way forward (okay, may be not such blatant stuff). Honor-code etc. are BS unenforceable measures that are game-theoretically unstable (and kill-off populations that stick to it). See what the finance industry does for instance.

coding123

a year ago

> and others appear to be running for cover.

In every industry right now there appear to be a lot of people running cover. I have a personal belief, with the exception of a few industries, 50% of managers are simply running cover. This is easy to explain:

1/ Nothing follows people

2/ Jobs were easy to get in the last 3 years (this is changing FAST)

3/ Rinse and repeat and stay low until you're caught.

bradley13

a year ago

Perhaps the root of all evil is "publish or perish". I am long out of research, working at a teaching college, and yet I am still expected to publish. Idiocy.

Academic fraud is also enabled by lack of replication. No one gets published by replicating someone else's work. If one could incentivize quality replication, that could help.

IG_Semmelweiss

a year ago

>>>> "..sleuths began to flag a few papers in which Masliah played a central role, posting to PubPeer, an online forum where research publications are discussed and allegations of misconduct often raised. In a few cases, Masliah or a co-author replied or made corrections. Soon after, Science spotted the posts, and because of Masliah’s position and standing decided to take a deeper look."

I am conforted that there are still real journalists such as those at science, doing fantastic work and pulling on a thread, wherever it may lead , reputations be damned.

Kudos to the PubPeer scientists for spotting the problem. Hat tip to you.

Last but not least, never forget that the free flow of information allowed this fraud to be uncovered. Truth and "moderation" (of the censorship/disinformation kind) cannot simultaneously exist.

themagician

a year ago

Why we would expect academia to be different from anything else these days? Fraud is how you get ahead. It is how you gain competitive advantage. When everyone is cheating, the only way to win is to cheat smarter. Fraud is the end result of the dreams that motivate people to be better than they. are.

hilux

a year ago

This stuff just ENRAGES me.

With that off my moobs ... for those interested in the broader topic, I highly recommend Science Fictions, by Stuart Ritchie. The audiobook is also excellent.

I'm not a working scientist, and I found it completely engaging. Worth it just for the explanation of p-hacking.

uptownfunk

a year ago

Do folks here know how expensive it is to develop a drug? How much work it takes to get it through the pipeline? How much time, heartache, effort, has gone wasted? How many patients given false hope? This is tragic on so many levels

qudat

a year ago

While I agree this is a big problem, science should never be defined by a single article.

I was always taught that science is a tree of knowledge where you build off previous positive results, all of which collapse when an ancestor turns out to be false.

a1445c8b

a year ago

In this particular case, the person of interest published 800 widely cited papers. That seems like a considerable collapse.

allpratik

a year ago

As a funders to almost of these research studies, we also need to introduce some mechanisms which will impart a compounding fear in minds of these criminals as year passes.

Basically a wrong study results over the years may ended up affecting millions (if not billions) of people. Someone(at every level of the chain) should pay a compounding punishment for a verified fraud.

At the same time, this shouldn't prevent a Nobel upcoming scientist being bold. After all, science is all about pushing the boundaries of understanding or doing.

owenpalmer

a year ago

> But at the same time I have a lot of sympathy for the honest scientists who have worked with Masliah over the years and who now have to deal with this explosion of mud over parts of their records.

This really is quite unfortunate.

mmooss

a year ago

Is it? Is it possible that none of them knew? Should they have responsibilities to go with the benefits of putting their names on major discoveries?

grog454

a year ago

I'm not a scientist because of fraud and other reason related to academia, but I thought one of the tennets of an experiment was reproducibility. Were his experiments reproduced independently? Why not?

ineedasername

a year ago

Tangential but related: My young tween child a couple of days ago:

“I hate AI, I don’t know what’s real anymore”

I think we’re about to see something much more extreme than the early ‘net days of “photoshop!” rage at clever fakes

gwerbret

a year ago

I think major scandals such as this one are essential, and we need more of them.

Why? The misaligned incentives that drive (in my opinion) otherwise-well-meaning human beings to fraud in the biomedical sciences stem from competition for increasingly-scarce resources, and the deeply and fundamentally-broken culture that develops as a result. The only thing that will propel the needed culture shift is for the people who provide the money to see, from the visibility provided by such scandals, just how bad the problem is, and to basically withdraw funding unless and until the changes happen.

Some of those changes include:

1. Reducing competition for funds by reducing the number of research-focused faculty positions (a.k.a. principal investigators, or PIs) across the board. When people's livelihoods depend on the ridiculous 5% odds of winning an important grant competition, they WILL cheat. As it stands, 20 well-funded scientists are probably more productive than 100 modestly-to poorly-funded, most of whom will do nothing meaningful or useful while trying to show "productivity" until the next funding cycle.

2. Reducing competition for funds by providing reasonably-assured research funding, tied to a diversity of indices of productivity, NOT just publications. As an example, a PI should be hired with the understanding that they'll need `x` dollars over the next 10 years to do their work. If those dollars aren't available, the person shouldn't be hired.

3. Reducing the number of PhD- and post-doctoral trainees across the board. These folks are mostly used as cheap labor by people who are well-aware, and don't care, that there will likely be no jobs for them.

4. Turning those PhD and post-doctoral positions into staff scientist positions, for people who want to do the research, but don't want the hassle of lab management. Staff scientist positions already exist, but in the current environment, when a PI can pay a postdoc $40k a year to work 80 - 100 hours a week, versus a staff scientist $80k a year to work 40 hours a week, guess which they pick.

5. Professionalizing the PhD stream. A person with a PhD in the biomedical sciences should be a broadly-capable individual able to be dropped, after graduation, into an assortment of roles, either academic or industrial. Right now, the incentive to produce publications tends to create people who are highly expert in a tiny, niche area, while having variable to nil competencies in anything else. Professionalization increases the range of post-PhD options for these folks, only one of which is academia. As it stands now, there's the tendency to feel that one has nothing if one doesn't have publications -- which increases the tendency towards fraud.

mrangle

a year ago

I don't know why this would be surprising. There's nothing more obvious than the fact that research is riddled with both fraud and laughably shoddy work.

user

a year ago

[deleted]

breck

a year ago

If you're an academic and want to use the fastest publishing stack ever created that also helps guide you to building the most honest, true thing you could create, I have built Scroll and ScrollHub specifically for you.

https://hub.scroll.pub/?template=paper

Happy to provide personal help onboarding those who want to use this to publish their scientific work. breck7@gmail.com

AlbertCory

a year ago

Once, at 3Com, Bob Metcalfe introduced a talk by one of his MIT professors with the little joke, "The reason academic politics is so vicious is that nothing's at stake."

The guy said, "That depends on whether you consider reputation 'nothing.' "

I guess what that shows is, you can always negotiate and compromise over money, but reputation is more of a binary. An academic can fake some work, and as long as he's never called on it, his reputation is set.

So yeah, a little more fear of having one's reputation ruined would go a long way towards fixing science.

mncharity

a year ago

> reputation

A caveat that "reputation", like competence, is more variagated and localized than is often appreciated. As with someone who is highly competent and well regarded in their own subfield, while simultaneously rather nutter about some nearby subfield where they don't actually work.

One can have a reputation like "good, but beware they have a thing for <mechanism X>". Or "ignore their results using <technique> - they see what they want to see". Subtext that gets passed among professors chatting at conferences, and to some extent to their students, but otherwise isn't highly accessible.

When people speak of creating research AI's using just papers... that's missing seemingly important backchannels. And corresponding with authors. Attempting research AI as developing-world professionally-isolated professor.

masswerk

a year ago

But this is really a societal/political issue: since we decided that economic capital is king and symbolic capital not that much… (This is really the story of the last four decades or so.)

abnry

a year ago

I have always said that while professors get paid less money than in industry, they are compensated in reputation to make up for it. Status and reputation are the currency of academia.

mmooss

a year ago

Intrinsic to the article is, arguably, a significant cause of fraud in this field: The article talks about fraud as if it's done by the 'other' - by someone else, other than the article's author (or their audience).

The solution starts when you say, 'we committed fraud - our field, our publication, the scientific enterprise. What are we going to do?'

Does the author really have no idea about these things? That they occur?

mkhattab

a year ago

Does anyone know of an up-to-date or live visualization of the amount of scientific fraud? And perhaps also measuring the second order effects? i.e. poisoning of the well via citations to the fraudulent papers.

It's hard to tell at this point if it's just selection bias or if the scientific fraud problem has outgrown the scope of self-correction.

neycoda

a year ago

Title should be changed to be more specific. It appears as if it's referring to an industry rather than just a person.

uslic001

a year ago

So things haven't changed in the 30 years since I left academic medicine. Par for the course given how grants and funding are carried out. This will continue to happen as the system design guarantees this outcome.

gmd63

a year ago

I would rather die than deliberately cause a humongous speed bump in the history of human understanding of the universe like this guy did. And the choice is never that stark. It's usually "id rather work in a less highly paid role".

To selfishly discard the collective attention of scientific experts for undue gain is despicable and should disqualify a person from all professional status indefinitely in addition to any legal charges.

I deeply respect anyone whose desires align with winning the collective game of understanding that science should be. I respect even more those folks who speak up when their colleagues or even friends seek to hack academia like this guy did.

DigitalPaladin

a year ago

I'm a recovering academic, and have not published since not long after defending my dissertation.

I blame this behavior entirely on "publish or perish". The demands for novel, thoughtful and statistically-significant findings is tremendous in academe, and this is the result: cheating.

I left professional academia because I resented the grind, and the push to publish ANYTHING (even reframing and recombining the same data umpteen times in different publications) in an effort to earn grants or attain tenure.

The academia system is broken, and it cannot be repaired with minor edits, in my opinion. This is a tear out and do over scenario for the academic culture, I'm afraid.

fasteo

a year ago

What about all the authors citing these papers ? Didn’t they find any incongruences in their own research?

moralestapia

a year ago

I've been saying this for years and have been punished for that. Even here.

I've done Biology and CS for almost 20 years now, I've worked at four of the top ten research institutions in the world. The ratio of honest to bullshit academics is alarmingly low.

Most of these people should be in jail. Not only do they commit academic fraud, many of them commit other types of crimes as well. When I was a PhD student, my 4 year old daughter was kidnapped by staff at KAUST. Mental and physical abuse is quite common and somewhat "accepted" in these institutions. Sexual harassment and sexual abuse is through the roof.

I am very glad that, slowly, these things are starting to vent out. This is one real swamp that needs to be drained.

Some smartass could come up and say "where is your evidence for this?". This is what allows this abhorrent behavior to thrive. Do you think these people are not smart enough to commit these crimes in covert ways? The reason why they do it is because they know no one will find out and they will get away with it.

What's the solution? I've thought about this a lot, a lot. I think a combination of policies and transparency could go a long way.

Because of what they did to me, I am fully committed to completely destroy and expunge people who do these things from academia. If you, for whatever reason, would like to help me on this mission, shoot me an email, there's a few ideas already taking shape towards that goal.

bartathe

a year ago

"Four of the top ten" research institutions is probably part of the reason for your experiences. I went to an elite private undergrad as a scholarship student and was sexually abused by the son of high powered lawyers, probably awful people themselves, who targeted scholarship students, international students, etc. because we were vulnerable with no recourse. I then went to a highly ranked but not super sexy public school for my PhD and my experience has been significantly better.

Bad actors are attracted to glamor and prestige because they're part of the cloaks and levers they use to escape consequences. Bad actors are far less attracted to, just as an example, living in Wisconsin, Michigan, or Indiana and telling people at conferences that they work at UW rather than Cambridge. UCs are also vastly more welcoming and supportive of working and middle class students than HYPSM even at the graduate level. That doesn't mean that you won't find any assholes at these places, and go too low in the rankings and you'll see ugly competition over scarce resources, but there's a sweet spot where more honorable people who aren't chasing prestige cluster and you'll find more support and recourse. Public schools ranked 5-15 are best for students without significant, significant social savvy and other forms of protection, IMO.

mmooss

a year ago

I hope your daughter is ok?!

mistercheph

a year ago

If there's this much overt, deliberate fraud and dishonesty in all of our research institutions, the quantities of soft lying and fudging are inconceivable.

We need to seriously rethink our approaching to stewarding these institutions and ideas, public trust is rightfully plummeting.

rurban

a year ago

He probably refers to Sylvain Lesné's previously detected Alzheimer fraud, a hugely influencal doctored paper. And now the #1 Alzheimer researcher Eliezer Masliah is also a fraudster.

gadders

a year ago

"Trust the Science"

Science is the best way we have of understanding reality, but sadly it is mediated by humans. Just because a human is a scientist, it doesn't make them infallible.

user

a year ago

[deleted]

iancmceachern

a year ago

I think the worst part has been lost in the noise.

There were, and currently are, people suffering from Parkinsons disease whom are being subjected to greater suffering, knowingly, to further this person's career.

This is Nazi and Tuskegee experiment level evil. This person should go to jail. Not US jail, international jail. These are crimes against humanity.

trustno2

a year ago

Oh wow, it was not just some guy publishing fradulent papers in fradulent journals that nobody reads or cites. He had giant impact, was cited tens of thousands of times!

api

a year ago

"Publish or perish" incentivizes publication volume, which is going to lead directly to all kinds of attempts to pad publication counts.

You get what you incentivize.

Centigonal

a year ago

I hate the thought that researchers and drug developers may have wasted their effort and dollars developing drugs based on one extremely selfish person's bogus results.

mistercheph

a year ago

Don't worry, a lot of them are fudging their numbers too, it's no biggie

robwwilliams

a year ago

Is it time for periodic AI-driven audits of papers. Some types of audits may be easy—Western blots for example. But many edge cases will require lots of sleuthing or preferably open access to all files and data. Obviously paying for your own audit sets up the incentives the wrong way.

Alzheimer’s research has been a mess for 30 years as Karl Herrup argues persuasively in How Not to Study a Disease:

https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262546010/how-not-to-study-a-di...

mbowcut2

a year ago

I guess we need to find a way to incentivize good practice rather than interesting results? Turns out that science is so hard that people cheat.

charlieyu1

a year ago

That’s what you get when you let bean counters take over academia and the worth of scientists are measured by number of papers and citations.

tomlockwood

a year ago

I love how often STEM people point at things like Sokal as fundamental criticisms of the humanities, and then stuff like this happens.

Chris2048

a year ago

I'm a little puzzled:

> Splicing, cloning, overlaying, copy-and-pasting

Is there no 3nd-party verification?

no requirement to send original blot-papers somewhere?

datavirtue

a year ago

Doctored neuroscience papers. I'm shocked.

davidashe

a year ago

Surely the incentive mismatch isn’t this simple:

Big results are rewarded, the process is considered worthless?

ramoz

a year ago

Verifiable computing and data lineage are important mitigation to be developed here.

pphysch

a year ago

Not clear whether it would be a net benefit, adding constraints and complexity to the scientific process which will be skipped whenever possible by underpaid labrats. Also, GIGO.

Need to tackle the incentives directly.

wredue

a year ago

So I guess it’s time for the hourly Hackernews propaganda push about “science bad”.

growingkittens

a year ago

This is all because science is systematic (step by step), not systemic (considering the whole system).

Both perspectives are required to understand reality. [1]

It's time to update science.

[1] "Systems Engineering: A systemic and systematic methodology for solving complex problems." Joseph Kasser, 2019. p. 17

georgeplusplus

a year ago

Were their papers peer reviewed? How does something like this happen.

whatever1

a year ago

I misread as "Freud, so much Freud". Which is also true

georgeplusplus

a year ago

Were the papers peer reviewed? How does something like this happen

ansgri

a year ago

Peer reviews are very surface-level, often delegated to inexperienced students, and not incentivized well to do any deep analysis except checking for proper references (the incentive here being making the author cite you or your friends). Been that student.

innagadadavida

a year ago

If this trend continues, science will be more like religion

shinyamagami

a year ago

It has been. Look at the history of science. Or look at well-educated lazy people. They explicitly say they believe in science.

drawkward

a year ago

At what point does scientific fraud become criminal?

tedk-42

a year ago

Straight to jail.

Same as white collar crime, except in academia.

fsndz

a year ago

there is so much junk science these days and the problem is the incentives are wrongly set (quantity over quality)

CatWChainsaw

a year ago

The quantity over quality incentive has ruined so, so much about modern life.

quantified

a year ago

At least science has mechanisms for dealing with fraud, for recognizing fraud and recovering from it. Can't be said for religion or politics.

user

a year ago

[deleted]

hn_throwaway_99

a year ago

Glad the title here is "Fraud, so much fraud" and not "Research misconduct". I hope that Masliah is charged with federal wire fraud.

In cases like this where the fraud is so blatant and solely done for the purposes of aggrandizing Masliah's reputation (and getting more money), and where it caused real harm, we need to treat these as the serious crimes that they are.

BoxFour

a year ago

Just a lark, not to be taken too seriously:

I wonder if a market-driven approach could work here, where hedge funds hire external labs to attempt to reproduce the research underlying new pharmaceutical companies or trials and then short the companies whose results they can’t replicate before results get reported.

PKop

a year ago

Trust the science.

ein0p

a year ago

And now a whole generation of doctors will probably be “treating patients” using these “findings”. See eg COVID where it became obvious that the ventilators are killing people and then we kept people hooking up to them for several more months

anonygler

a year ago

I didn’t get the Covid vaccine because of all the medical research fraud I’ve witnessed as a grad student.

Remember things like this the next time you try to mandate injections with no long term research.

BiteCode_dev

a year ago

Distrust in science is already a big problem as it is, but this is really making it so much worse.

Good luck convincing an anti-vaxer now.

It was already hard before, but now they have plenty of amunition.

dartharva

a year ago

> A former NIA official who would only speak if granted anonymity says he assumes the agency did not assess Masliah’s work for possible misconduct or data doctoring before he was hired.

> Indeed, NIH told Science it does not routinely conduct such reviews, because of the difficulty of the process. “There is no evidence that such proactive screening would improve, or is necessary to improve, the research integrity environment at NIH,” the agency added.

LOL. Here are your tax dollars at work, Americans.

bendbro

a year ago

Aw shucks, better luck next time. I bet each of you hackers possess exactly the humanist, ethics focused, inclusive, science based, data driven solution "we" need to fix this problem. If only it wasn't for those bad people who made this bad system turning all the good people into bad people!

NotYourLawyer

a year ago

This shit should be a crime. Imagine how many person-hours and how much money has been wasted.

SubiculumCode

a year ago

Wait until image diffusion is used to fake blots and panels. :(

CatWChainsaw

a year ago

We already have fake rat 50x priapic erections.

CarpaDorada

a year ago

If you are familiar with academia you'll realize the academic dishonesty policy is essentially the playbook by which academics behave. The author is surprised that Eliezer Masliah purportedly had instances of fraud spanning 25 years. I bet the author would be even more surprised to find out that most academics are like that for the entire duration of their career. My favorite instance is Shing-Tung Yau, who is still a Harvard professor, who attempted to steal Grigori Perelman's proof of Poincare's conjecture (a millenium prize problem <https://www.claymath.org/millennium-problems/> that comes with a $1MM prize and $10k/mo for the rest of one's life; Perelman rejected all of it.)

I mean, get this: an extremely gifted Mathematician living on a measly salary in Russia had had his millenium prize almost stolen by a Harvard professor. What more evidence do you need?

slashdave

a year ago

You've given two examples. Please explain why you can extrapolate to all of academia.

camillomiller

a year ago

The damage this person and he accomplices blew to science and the reputation of medical research in this moment in time is enormous. The first thing that comes to mind is that this outing of such blatant fraud will be inevitably quoted by hordes of novaxxers and anti-science cultists for years to come.

pdfernhout

a year ago

From "The Big Crunch" by David Goodstein" (1994) https://www.its.caltech.edu/~dg/crunch_art.html

    "The crises that face science are not limited to jobs and research funds. Those are bad enough, but they are just the beginning. Under stress from those problems, other parts of the scientific enterprise have started showing signs of distress. One of the most essential is the matter of honesty and ethical behavior among scientists.
    The public and the scientific community have both been shocked in recent years by an increasing number of cases of fraud committed by scientists. There is little doubt that the perpetrators in these cases felt themselves under intense pressure to compete for scarce resources, even by cheating if necessary. As the pressure increases, this kind of dishonesty is almost sure to become more common.
    Other kinds of dishonesty will also become more common. For example, peer review, one of the crucial pillars of the whole edifice, is in critical danger. Peer review is used by scientific journals to decide what papers to publish, and by granting agencies such as the National Science Foundation to decide what research to support. Journals in most cases, and agencies in some cases operate by sending manuscripts or research proposals to referees who are recognized experts on the scientific issues in question, and whose identity will not be revealed to the authors of the papers or proposals. Obviously, good decisions on what research should be supported and what results should be published are crucial to the proper functioning of science.
    Peer review is usually quite a good way to identify valid science. Of course, a referee will occasionally fail to appreciate a truly visionary or revolutionary idea, but by and large, peer review works pretty well so long as scientific validity is the only issue at stake. However, it is not at all suited to arbitrate an intense competition for research funds or for editorial space in prestigious journals. There are many reasons for this, not the least being the fact that the referees have an obvious conflict of interest, since they are themselves competitors for the same resources. This point seems to be another one of those relativistic anomalies, obvious to any outside observer, but invisible to those of us who are falling into the black hole. It would take impossibly high ethical standards for referees to avoid taking advantage of their privileged anonymity to advance their own interests, but as time goes on, more and more referees have their ethical standards eroded as a consequence of having themselves been victimized by unfair reviews when they were authors. Peer review is thus one among many examples of practices that were well suited to the time of exponential expansion, but will become increasingly dysfunctional in the difficult future we face.
    We must find a radically different social structure to organize research and education in science after The Big Crunch. That is not meant to be an exhortation. It is meant simply to be a statement of a fact known to be true with mathematical certainty, if science is to survive at all. The new structure will come about by evolution rather than design, because, for one thing, neither I nor anyone else has the faintest idea of what it will turn out to be, and for another, even if we did know where we are going to end up, we scientists have never been very good at guiding our own destiny. Only this much is sure: the era of exponential expansion will be replaced by an era of constraint. Because it will be unplanned, the transition is likely to be messy and painful for the participants. In fact, as we have seen, it already is. ..."

vt85

a year ago

[dead]

hello_computer

a year ago

[flagged]

AlbertCory

a year ago

Unfortunately, sometimes someone becomes a bad example. That doesn't make them a "scapegoat", the favored defense of people like that.

A scapegoat is something that takes on all the sins of a lot of others who skate free. If Masliah is the only one who ever suffers, then he IS a scapegoat, but if this article serves to uncover a lot of other bad actors, then he's not. And if his example serves to warn a lot of other scientists to clean up their acts, then his suffering is a benefit.

SpaceManNabs

a year ago

I had a feeling academia was just run a ran by people letting blatant fraud, exploitation and abuse of phd students, stealing during peer-review, and just other forms of plagiarism, fraud, and exploitation slide by. They let it slide by because correcting these things would lead to massive changes in academia that might put them out of jobs.

Every year that feeling becomes more certain. Glad I quit the track in grad school.

I feel terribly for all the incredibly smart and hard working academics that remain honest and try to make it work. They do what they love, otherwise they wouldn't do such intensive work with so much sacrifice.

It is really disheartening too because academia only turns on the "honesty filter" when it comes to minor grad students that pissed off the wrong people. But you can do all this fraud constantly and become president of harvard if you know the right politics.

Dishonest lot. I hope karma is real so they get what is coming to them for taking advantage of people that just love to increase humanity's knowledge.

SpaceManNabs

a year ago

alright, am i being downvoted because of my perniciousness to those leading academia, or because I was too sympathetic to the people being exploited?

chasum

a year ago

[flagged]

georgeecollins

a year ago

It's wrong to think that because there is reports of fraud or systematic error in science you shouldn't trust it. I'm sure all those things exist. But they also exist in every other institution with a lot less self-reflection and self-correction.

Nassim Taleb said that people think weathermen are terrible predictors of the future. He says meteorology is among the most accurate sources of predictions in our lives. But we can easily validate it and we see the mistakes. If we had as much first hand experience with other types of predictions we'd appreciate the accuracy of weatherman. My point is: just because you know the flaws in a system don't assume it isn't better than another.

ljsprague

a year ago

Where is Eliezer Masliah from?

teddyh

a year ago

MASLIAH, 65, TRAINED in medicine and neuropathology at the National Autonomous University of Mexico (UNAM), earning his medical degree in 1982 and completing a residency in pathology in 1986. He married a U.S. resident who also studied medicine at UNAM. They relocated to San Diego after Masliah’s training.

— <https://www.science.org/content/article/research-misconduct-...>

trallnag

a year ago

What kind of "from"? For example, ethnically, due to his Hebrew name, he's seems to be from Israel or at least the Levant.

devwastaken

a year ago

Universities became tax funded and the consequences is warm bodies filling chairs. I have experience with a number of big name unis in the U.S. they are all about office and national politics. It's not about the work and hasn't been for a while now.

Defund universities. No more student loans, make them have to earn their place in the market or we will continue to suffer under the manipulated system that is actually killing students.

lordfrito

a year ago

> Defund universities. No more student loans, make them have to earn their place in the market or we will continue to suffer under the manipulated system that is actually killing students.

This... it's no longer about value its about optics... Problem exists in most industries now. The pendulum needs to swing back the other way before it's too late to stop the decay...

ChuckMcM

a year ago

On the plus side, this is the kind of stuff you could screen pretty easily with large model machine learning. Not that there is a business in identifying scientific fraud, doing that with fraudulent government documents would probably have a better ROI (at least for the tax payer), but clearly we need a repository if every image/graph that has been published as evidence to start.

It would be something you could offer to journals perhaps as a business. Sort of "peer reviewed and fraud analyzed" kinda service.

What is truly sad for me is the 'wrong paths' many hard working and well meaning scientists get deflected down while someone cheats to get more 'impact' points.