On Impactful AI Research

172 pointsposted 12 hours ago
by KraftyOne

29 Comments

will-burner

12 hours ago

This has good advice about academic research in general not just AI Research. It's huge to "Select timely problems with large headroom and "fanout"" - you need a research program to have a successful research career. At least most people do. It's also huge to "Put your work out there and own popularizing your ideas" - the second part is hard for a lot of academics to do. Putting your work out there is huge to get feedback, which may help you pivot or try different directions, as well as fostering collaboration. Collaboration is a large part of being a successful researcher.

throw_pm23

11 minutes ago

Yes, similar in spirit to the advice from Bret Victor's talk: "invent on principle".

Loic

4 hours ago

> Collaboration is a large part of being a successful researcher.

I would even consider it as the largest part. It brings ideas, funding, spreading of your ideas, access to institutional research grants/projects, industry contacts, and more.

Blahah

an hour ago

Agreed! It also brings friendships, new ways of thinking and framing, inspiration, and the opportunity to give and receive support - to discover how much you can matter, and the good you can do.

vaylian

4 hours ago

> you need a research program

What is a "research program"?

lmeyerov

7 hours ago

I like the article directionally but fear the examples are too short-sighted for most AI researchers.

Picking something useful in 1-2 years is a reason to go to industry, not research, and leads to mostly incremental units that if you don't do, someone else will. Yes, hot topics are good because they signal a time of fertile innovation. But not if your vision is so shallow that you will have half of IBM, Google, and YC competing with you before you start or by the time of your first publication (6-12mo). If you are a top student, well-educated already, with top resources and your own mentees, and your advisor is an industry leader who already knows where your work will go, maybe go to the thickest 1-2 year out AI VC fest, but that's not most PhD students.

A 'practical' area would be obvious to everyone in 5 years, but winnowing out the crowd, there should not be much point to it today nor 1-2 years without something fundamentally changing. It should be tangible enough to be relevant and enticing, but too expensive for whatever reasons. More fundamental research would be even more years out. This gives you a year or two to dig into the problem, and another year or two to build out fundamental solutions, and then a couple years of cranking. From there, rinse-and-repeat via your own career or those of your future students.

Some of my favorite work took 1-2 years of research to establish the problem, not just the solutions. Two of the projects here were weird at first as problems on a longer time scale, but ended up as part of $20M grant and software many folks here use & love, and another, a 10 year test of time award. (And another, arguably a $100M+ division at Nvidia). In contrast, most of my topic-of-the-year stuff didn't matter and was interchangeable with work by others.

Edit: The speech by Hamming on "You and your research" hits on similar themes and speaks more to my experiences here: https://fs.blog/great-talks/richard-hamming-your-research/

sashank_1509

7 hours ago

Unfortunately while this advice sounds useful, it isn’t. It might be useful if you measure impact is the fake metrics like citation count but if you want to measure with actual tangible impact on the real world, you have a rude awakening before you. To me there are 2 ways a paper can create impact:

1. The paper represents such an impressive leap in performance over existing methods in AI, that it is obviously impactful. Unfortunately, this way of generating impact is dominated by industry. No one can expect Academia to train O1, SAM, GPT5 etc. AI rewards scale, scale requires money, resources and manpower and Academia has none. In the early days of AI, there were rare moments when this was possible, AlexNet, Adam, Transformers, PPO etc. Is it still possible? I do not know, I have not seen anything in the last 3 years and I’m not optimistic many such opportunities are left. Even validating your idea tends to require the scale of industry.

2. The paper affects the thought process of other AI researchers and thus you are indirectly impactful if any of them cause big leaps in AI performance. Unfortunately here is where Academia has shot itself in the foot by generating so many damn papers every year (>10,000). There are just so many, that the effect of any 1 paper is meaningless. In fact the only way to be impactful now is to be in a social circle of great researchers, so that you know your social circle will read your paper and later if any of them make big performance improvements, you can believe that you played a small role in it. I have spoken to a lot of ML researchers, and they told me they choose papers to read just based on people and research groups they know. Even being a NeurIPS spotlight paper, means less than 10% of researchers will read your paper, maybe it will go to 50% if it’s a NEURIPS best paper but even that I doubt. How many researchers remember last year’s NEURIPS best paper?

The only solution to problem 2, is radical. The ML community needs to come together and limit the number of papers it wide releases. Let us say it came out and said that yearly only 20 curated papers will be widely published. Then you can bet most of the ML community will read all 20 of those papers and engage with it deeply as they will be capable of spending more than a day at least thinking about the paper. Of course you can still publish on arxiv, share with friends etc but unless such a dramatic cutdown is made I don’t see how you can be an actually impactful AI researcher in Academia when option 1 is too expensive and option 2 is made impossible.

EnigmaFlare

6 hours ago

If you were a really good academic, you could come up with a theory that predicts the performance of a model you haven't actually tested. Physics is full of this - theories that predict something novel followed by other people doing expensive experiments to test them. The guy who published the theory gets the credit. That's probably what we want from academic AI researchers - theories that we can eventually use to design models, rather than just haphazardly building something and wondering how good it will be.

tony_cannistra

12 hours ago

"Invest in projects, not papers."

This is excellent advice, and in my experience does not represent the intuition that many young (and not so young) researchers begin with.

Papers come from projects and, if you care, good projects can yield many good papers!

accurrent

9 hours ago

The problem is my supervisor only cares about paper count.

voiper1

6 hours ago

Article's point seems to be that in the long term: paper count, citations, impact, motivation and fulfillment will all come from focusing on a project.

accurrent

5 hours ago

I tend to agree but there are way too many paper mills out there and Ive been stuck in one.

The gamification of google scholar is real

juujian

11 hours ago

Idk, nothing wrong with going for a low-hanging fruit and doing a one-off sometimes. So many academics fail to get stuff over the finish line. Not the right advice for everybody.

stavros

10 hours ago

Yeah, but it's not saying "don't do papers", it's saying your long-term investment should be projects.

danielmarkbruce

10 hours ago

Interesting. This is a common problem in academia?

tony_cannistra

10 hours ago

nothing wrong except that it might be a distraction, which sometimes is good and sometimes would be better avoided.

mehulashah

28 minutes ago

This advice is much more general than academic research. It applies to startups as well.

Der_Einzige

8 hours ago

At least some of it comes from "hype" too. The author of Dspy (the writer) (https://github.com/stanfordnlp/dspy) should know this, given that Dspy is nothing more than fancy prompts optimizing prompts to be fancier according to prompt chains described in papers (i.e. Chain of thought, Tree of thought, etc). Textgrad (https://github.com/zou-group/textgrad) is an even worse example of this, as it makes people think that it's not just a prompt optimizing another prompt

Dspy has 17k stars, meanwhile PyReft (https://github.com/stanfordnlp/pyreft) isn't even at 1200 yet and it has Christopher Manning (head of AI at stanford) working on it (see their paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/2404.03592). Sometimes what the world deems "impactful" in the short-medium term is wrong. Think long term. PyReft is likely the beginning of an explosion in demand for ultra parameter efficient techniques, while Dspy will likely fade into obscurity over time.

I also know that the folks writing better samplers/optimizers for LLMs get almost no love/credit relative to the outsized impact they have on the field. A new sampler potentially improves EVERY LLM EVER! Folks like Clara Meister or the authors of the min_p paper preprint have had far larger impacts on the field than their citation counts might suggest, based on the fact that typiciality or min_p sampling is now considered generally superior to top_p/top_k (OpenAI, Anthropic, Gemini, et al still use top_p/top_k) and min_p/typicality are implemented by every open source LLM inference engine (i.e. huggingface, vllm, sglang, etc)

thelastbender12

5 hours ago

I think that's a little harsh. Imo the reason for difference in popularity/github-stars is just different user bases- an order of magnitude more people use LLM APIs (and can leverage Dspy) vs those who finetune an LLM.

Agree about the abstractions btw. I found Dspy very convoluted for what it does, couldn't make sense of Textgrad at all.

low_tech_love

2 hours ago

Although point #1 is true, I find it to be a slightly superficial advice. It's like saying "if you want to be happy, find a job that fulfills you". Sure, everyone wants to be able to focus on good projects before papers, so that the papers come naturally. If you can do that, congrats! You won the game; be proud and enjoy it. However, the truth is that the way to get there is dark and lonely and full of terrors, and not everyone can do it. All academics (especially junior ones) are constantly in the middle of an ambiguous, contradictory discourse: you must produce a lot, but you also must produce high-quality output. Your environment, literally everyone around you, wants to have your cake and eat it too. As you get more experienced you learn to navigate this and keep the good parts while ignoring the bad ones, but for young researchers this can be extremely taxing and stressful. In order to "focus on projects and not papers" you have to literally swim against the current, usually in a very very strong current. Not everyone has the presence of mind and attitude to do it, and to be honest, it's not fair to expect that either.

So, here are some points and comments I offer that go in a slightly different direction (although, like I said, if you managed to get there, congrats!):

* You can write a good paper without it being a good project. One thing does not exclude the other, and the fact that there are many bad papers out there does not mean that papers themselves are bad. You can plan your work around a paper, do a good research job, and write a good scientific report without having to have an overarching research project that spills over that. Sure, it is great when it happens (and it will happen the more experienced and senior you get), but it's not necessarily true.

* Not thinking about the paper you'll write out of your work might deter you from operationalizing your research correctly. Not every project can be translated into a good research paper, with objective/concrete measurements that translate to a good scientific report. You might end up with a good Github repo (with lots of stars and forks) and if that's your goal, then great! But if your goal is to publish, you need to think early on: "what can I do that will be translated into a good scientific paper later?" This will guide your methods towards the right direction and make sure you do not pull your hair later (at least not as many) when you get rejected a million times and end up putting your paper in a venue you're not proud of.

* Publishing papers generates motivation. When a young research goes too long without seeing the results of their work, they lose motivation. It's very common for students to have this philosophical stance that they want to work on the next big project that will change the world, and that they need time and comfort and peace to do that, so please don't bother me with this "paper" talk. Fast forward three years later they have nothing published, are depressed, and spend their time playing video games and procrastinating. The fact is that people see other people moving forward, and if they don't, no amount of willpower to "save the world" with a big project will keep them going. Publishing papers gives motivation; you feel that your work was worth it, you go to conferences and talk to people, you hear feedback from the community. It's extremely important, and there's no world where a PhD student without papers is healthier and happier than one with papers.

* Finishing a paper and starting the next one is a healthy work discipline. Some people just want to write a good paper and move on. Not everyone feels so passionate about their work that they want to spend their personal time with it, and push it over all boundaries. You don't have to turn your work into your entire life. Doing a good job and then moving on is a very healthy practice.

spatalo

2 hours ago

i don't fully agree with the headroom, many papers were published achieving 1% improvement on ImageNet...

KuriousCat

9 hours ago

I would say follow the money, create a product or service that generates recurrent income and channel that income to study the fundamental problems that would interest you. Owning a product or platform opens up for a lot of opportunities.

Ar-Curunir

9 hours ago

Thankfully research is not guided by notions like "what makes money in the current economy"; otherwise we'd be stuck with faster calculators instead of, well, all of modern computer science.

KuriousCat

8 hours ago

I did not say anything about making money in the current economy. Research requires funding and only way to have academic freedom is to have a steady source of recurrent income or funding. One way to get that is to please those who have money but give up part of your control on what you study. Other way is to monetize your knowledge and acquire a ton of money. You seem to misunderstand what I said or have very little clue on how the academia works.

godelski

8 hours ago

  > Thankfully research is not guided by notions like "what makes money in the current economy"
Unfortunately I don't believe this is true for AI research... I think you'll find a strong correlation with each year's most cited papers and what's currently popular in industry. There's always exceptions, but we moved to a world where we're highly benchmark oriented, and that means we're highly reliant on having large compute infrastructures, and that means that the access and/or funding comes from industry. Who is obviously going to pressure research directions towards certain things.

levocardia

3 hours ago

>Thankfully research is not guided by notions like "what makes money in the current economy"

That's right, it's guided by "what gets grant money in the current paradigm"

Maxatar

8 hours ago

Most research I know about in academia is absolutely about what makes money.

Ar-Curunir

6 hours ago

Care to give some examples? It is largely untrue in CS academia, and definitely untrue in every other non-engineering field.

vouaobrasil

11 hours ago

> how do I do research that makes a difference in the current, rather crowded AI space?

I hope they are first asking, to which bank accounts is the research actually making a difference? It's a great fraud to present research problems to stimulate the intellect of the naive youth when they have no capability to assess its social impact.