76 pointsposted 9 months ago
by Neon_Forge

Item id: 41633574

50 Comments

roenxi

9 months ago

Cool but probably not that interesting to the development of AI in Hollywood over the longer term. As the tech improves, at current rates, I expect we'll see something like VTubers on a mass scale. Companies creating their own virtual people - where they control the IP - and putting all their efforts behind promoting them instead of humans. It'll be cheaper and easier in the long run.

Same process as green screens or the rise of animation. There is a lot of pressure on the humans and once AIs crack acting they'll be much more consistently good than humans.

pjc50

9 months ago

> I expect we'll see something like VTubers on a mass scale. Companies creating their own virtual people - where they control the IP - and putting all their efforts behind promoting them instead of humans

I'm reminded of the "failure" of Kizuna AI; the fully corporate vtuber whose human side is just a puppet operator who can be swapped, turns out not to be very appealing to audiences. The modern approach where a model is exactly synonymous with the person playing it, as an authentic human improvising, appeals more. The IP doesn't persist beyond the contract of that person with the company, and certainly can't be swapped with someone else. But in some cases the actor or actress has successfully maintained their career and fanbase under a different name following a fallout with their managers.

> once AIs crack acting

This is far beyond the turing test, and I don't think we're really ready for what happens with human-indistinguishable automated corporately owned doppelgangers.

roenxi

9 months ago

> This is far beyond the turing test, and I don't think we're really ready for what happens with human-indistinguishable automated corporately owned doppelgangers.

We're already past the Turing test. If a corporation decides it wants an AI that passes the Turning test it can build one, no worries. I might cheerfully suggest that if AIs fail the Turing test right now it is because they are unrealistically supportive listeners and their wide knowledge across different topics and trivia is a giveaway.

noobermin

9 months ago

That isn't what happened to kizuna ai, she just wasn't as popular because she didn't stream like the others.

Eddy_Viscosity2

9 months ago

Hollywood already had this with characters they own: James bond, mickey mouse, etc. The people who scrpt/act/draw/voice them are all swappable. An Ai actor isn't much different than a cartoon character but for live action.

erie

9 months ago

They are already here with outfits such as Synthesia and heygen.

JumpCrisscross

9 months ago

> Companies creating their own virtual people - where they control the IP - and putting all their efforts behind promoting them instead of humans

The 'killer app' will be a personal cast of virtual performers. Tailor made to appeal to you.

gedy

9 months ago

I really want this - if you want a movie with a diverse cast, great. All black, no problem. K-pop star wars, etc.

I highly doubt Hollywood and actors would ever go for this, but I think people would enjoy it.

DrSiemer

9 months ago

Not a great movie, but one part of "the Congress" was interesting: if a famous actor or actress gets older, they could choose to sell the rights to their likeness to an AI company.

shafyy

9 months ago

> As the tech improves, at current rates

Aha! The "current rates" there does some very heavy lifting. Nobody knows how LLMs will develop. It would be naive to assume that you can just extrapolate linearly from here on out.

JumpCrisscross

9 months ago

"Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter" [1].

The original source [2] is much clearer. It addresses the other comment's confusion: the laws extend "to protect anyone in California living or dead."

Also, the bills:

https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/bills/ca_202320240ab...

https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/bills/ca_202320240ab...

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[2] https://www.indiewire.com/news/breaking-news/using-ai-replac...

BluSyn

9 months ago

Just in California, right? What’s the prevent a studio elsewhere from doing this? Online distribution makes the legal borders meaningless here. So people in California will just need a VPN to watch future action movies?

kranke155

9 months ago

You didn't read the article did you?

The first bill, AB 1836, “prohibits the use of a deceased person’s voice or likeness in digital replicas without the prior consent of their estate,” according to SAG-AFTRA. The second, AB 2602, “prohibits contractual provisions that would allow for the use of a digital replica of an individual’s voice or likeness in place of the individual’s actual services,” unless the individual gave their consent to a clear, specific description of how the AI would be used.

You just need consent or a proper contract. The bill only forbids them of doing this without consent, or having it forced onto standard contracts in Hollywood. Both of which were likely inevitable without this bill.

You can still do it, ignoring the clickbait title of this article.

Dracophoenix

9 months ago

Implicit in this law is the absurd assumption that an individual owns a particular arrangement of facial features. How does this law apply if an identical twin or real-life doppelgängers agree to become models for a digital replica? If you throw a quarter in a crowded New York subway, it's likely to bounce off three blond heads that bear a resemblance to Taylor Swift. They shouldn't be denied their own bodily autonomy on the basis of a legal fiction and an ersatz patent system devised for the benefit of a special interest.

tw04

9 months ago

If they’re applying for a random acting job they’re fine. If they’re applying for a Taylor Swift impersonator role, they’re likely to run into legal issues. I don’t see why that’s a problem. Why does their bodily autonomy have to include attempting to fool other people into thinking they’re someone they aren’t?

If I attempt to convince the government I’m someone I’m not, there are real criminal penalties - my “body autonomy” doesn’t extend to deception.

consteval

9 months ago

> absurd assumption that an individual owns a particular arrangement of facial features

They do, in combination with the rest of their abstract characteristics, such as personality. This is commonly referred to as identity - who you are. You own it by virtue of it being impossible for anyone to. You're you and you'll always be you, and nobody else can be you, by definition.

squarefoot

9 months ago

Hollywood is in panic (just as every art related business) about AI, but in this case I'm sure they pushed some buttons to delay the inevitable until they're ready to build an infrastructure that rents famous deceased actors/actresses tracts, voices and characters through their respective agents. Living actors could also agree with that. Would a old retied actor refuse a boatload of money to allow putting a 25 years old clone of him/herself in a new movie, if they could oversee the creation/direction and veto what they wouldn't like? I don't think AI clones in movies are going away anytime soon, there's too much money that can't be ignored.

t0bia_s

9 months ago

If someone is in panic about AI in art industry, it's because his skills are not good enough. AI is tool that makes job done faster, but you still need idea and know-how, how to use it properly and usefully for specific tasks.

Film industry should focus on quality instead of quantity.

singularity2001

9 months ago

How could one ever define a threshold in similarity between a living person and some AI resembling that living person?

llamaimperative

9 months ago

By going to court and seeing what a judge and jury think, same as how you define countless other wrongdoings.

DannyBee

9 months ago

this is exactly the kind of thing that juries resolve all the time.

ukoki

9 months ago

Indeed. What happens if you license the AI likeness of a George Clooney impersonator?

rurban

9 months ago

So they will just move to Miami or New Orleans.

The bigger remaining problem would be the SAG actors union deal, caused by the last strike. And this was already before Newsom signed this. Do we have elections coming up? Oh yes, we do

fabioq

9 months ago

I think that's fair and AI should create new actors, avatars, which then could fall into IP laws. I would love to see Agents of AI actors create strong and lasting actors for movies and market them

autoexec

9 months ago

> Studios will also be prohibited from cloning deceased actors unless they have permission from their estates.

It'd be great to see people protected everywhere, but do estates for the dead always exist? Hopefully there's some exception carved out for the dead who don't really have anyone around to care if they're used or not. A lot of cool stuff could be done with AI historical figures or ancient performers.

cultureswitch

9 months ago

I think it should always be legal to use the likeness of deceased people.

Could it be gross? Yes. But I'd rather have that than the absurdity of copyright be extended to beyond the grave for yet another case where it makes no sense. There is no theory of harm here, the person being impersonated is dead.

Could you damage the reputation of a living person by using the image of a dead one? Of course, but that's already illegal.

hsbauauvhabzb

9 months ago

So you’re assuming consent unless there’s someone there to deny it? Gross.

user

9 months ago

[deleted]

soco

9 months ago

As much as it might be shunned in some circles, organized people can still change things for the better.

autoexec

9 months ago

> organized people can still change things for the better.

Which is exactly why it's aggressively shunned in some circles and why large amounts of time/money is spent to manipulate public opinion against the practice.

aitchnyu

9 months ago

All the US social media posts were crapping on unions about lazy teachers earning a ton of money and film productions waiting till an electrician comes in and turns on a switch. I didnt realize the alternative was corporates having the unchecked power.

kleiba

9 months ago

Why just actors?

thg

9 months ago

Quoted from the second paragraph:

> the new laws not only bolster those existing protections but extend them to everyone in California — not just to people working in front of a camera in Hollywood

bell-cot

9 months ago

Roughly, I'd assume that the Screen Actors Guild was looking out for their member's interests.

Current AI's don't seem much of a threat to firefighters or plumbers.

ur-whale

9 months ago

> Why just actors?

So far, they're the only one who signed a big enough check to the politicians.

pfannkuchen

9 months ago

So you can definitely portray historical figures without permission, right?. For example no one is getting permission from Hitler’s estate for WW2 movies AFAIK.

If you have someone playing Hitler in an alternate reality where he was a bartender, is that illegal today?

Can’t you do the same with an actor?

Or do you actually need permission to portray historical figures, and Hitler or Napoleon etc are just special cases because they don’t have estates to be asked?

sazz

9 months ago

So AI is forbidden to impersonate somebody who impersonates somebody else?

tw04

9 months ago

Someone impersonating someone else is already forbidden. The impersonators in Vegas get by because they are openly claiming to be impersonators. Nobody in their right mind is going to think the fake Elvis on the corner is actually Elvis.

user

9 months ago

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user

9 months ago

[deleted]

user

9 months ago

[deleted]

tempfile

9 months ago

Why limit it to commercial works? I was originally optimistic this would help with e.g. deepfake attacks. Unfortunately it seems like it is mere protectionism.

SmartJerry

9 months ago

Because it was created by/for the movie studios. Everything else is just unintended consequences.

existingfraud

9 months ago

Aren't there already state and federal laws to prosecute fraud and identity theft, including deepfakes?

It doesn't matter how advanced the rock or other weapon; if they hold someone up with it that's an aggravated crime.

yieldcrv

9 months ago

without permission

easy to obtain permission

accelerates reason to generate new genAI humans with no meatspace counterpart

actors still don’t get paid

reportgunner

9 months ago

why stop at actors, make genAI viewers too

welferkj

9 months ago

Yeah, I don't see how most of everyone involved in artistic content creation comes out of this with economically viable jobs. People will only put up with legacy pricing for so long once AI can do it cheaper and/or better.

rnamyv

9 months ago

I agree with the impersonation bans but I'm disappointed that it took a viral Kamala Harris parody to get Gavin Newsom into action:

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/09/18/california-deepfake...

Politicians care about their own, not the general population.