FRAM seems great and I wonder why it's not used more. TI has some MSP430 processors that include it, but when they went to the MSP432 (ARM architecture), they said something about a process incompatibility. Some ARM or Risc-V processors with FRAM would be great.
Any idea what the process issue is? Would you say FRAM is on the decline? Super low powered CMOS ram used to also be a thing, but I haven't seen that in a while either.
Added: article mentions flash memory is $15/gbit. I guess that is NOR flash? NAND is way way cheaper, more like $15/terabit.
Another question: is it reasonable to say that FRAM automatically implements secure erasure? Like if you overwrite a cell, can you be sure that the old contents are gone? With flash, you have to worry about stuff like sector remapping other the covers.
Here's a 4 mbit Adafruit FRAM breakout, out of stock but smaller sizes are available: https://www.adafruit.com/product/4719
TI MSP430FR5969 development board: https://www.ti.com/tool/MSP-EXP430FR5969
That is a fancy MSP430 processor with 64KB of FRAM and 2KB of regular ram. The board is $16. The regular ram is I think a little bit faster than the FRAM and good for "infinite" write cycles instead of mere trillions, so I guess you need both. They have a few more of these boards including one with 128KB of FRAM if I remember right.
The metal ions from the ferroelectric material can contaminate the silicon production line. I read that they would manufacture the silicon die at one facility (i.e. make the transistors) and then do the rest of the fabrication (the ferroelectric material, top metal, etc.) at another facility to avoid contamination. Maybe that's the process incompatibility that you mentioned. I don't know if FRAM is on a decline or will hold on as a niche product.
Hmm, thanks, I'm surprised those MSP430 cpus aren't more expensive if their fabrication is that complicated. So it sounds like the ARM designs (I guess basically hard macros from ARM Ltd.?) aren't compatible with that type of process. I wonder if a RISC-V design starting with downloaded HDL would be easier. I hope it happens: FRAM is really cool in concept and I've had a few application ideas where it would be great.
It’s real popular in the niches that use it. Industrial controls systems really seem to love it.
I’ve heard that some real fast control systems like to have it as a recovery method to save state in event of major system hiccups.
minor correction: the central atoms in pzt are not zircon but zirconium. zircon is zirconium silicate, the form in which zirconium is almost always found in nature. there is no silicate in pzt
also, the atom that can substitute for zirconium in that central position is not lead but titanium. you do explain this in the following sentence, but first you say 'causes the lead or [zirconium] atom to physically move', which is wrong
Thanks, I've fixed those!
Bubble memory next please! It was the next big thing for storage for a brief period in the late 1980s.
Oh wow I’d never heard of bubble memory before. That’s crazy.
The (in retrospect) strange and complicated things people came up with to store bits before magnetic core got popular and then later silicon wiped the field are so much more interesting than what we’ve got now.
I get why silicon won. But it’s just nowhere near as fun as bubble memory, delay lines, or CRTs.
Someone gave me a board with bubble memory chips to examine, but when I opened up the chip it turned out to be regular DRAM; they were mistaken about the type of memory.
I've always wondered if the ROMs on my VAXstation 4000/90a are ferroelectric. The DEC manuals refer to it as flash ROM, but I've also heard / read it referred to as FRAM, although I couldn't say I remember where or when.
But 512KB of FRAM at $3 per megabit would make that pricier than the machine! So I wonder what it has in it instead.
Interesting! Thanks :)
It wouldn't make sense to use FRAM for ROM, since the big feature of FRAM is fast write speed. I found one DEC document that says the Flash ROM on one product is the Intel 28F008SA, an 8Mb flash chip. So I expect the VAXstation uses boring flash too, rather than costly FRAM.
Link: https://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/semiconductor/arm/EC-QU5KA-TE_...
What would be good for DRAM read speeds, and not care too much write speeds?
I’m thinking of keeping an LLM’s weights in a storage RAM, where it would be updated only every few months.
DRAM or SLC NAND.
Be careful with read-induced disturbance on the latter, though.
Are the parts pin-compatible with parallel sram? I've always thought it would be nice to replace the battery-backed SRAM in old video game cartridges with MRAM or FeRAM
I’ve replaced battery backed SRAM in several game consoles and other devices with FRAM (Neo Geo CD, Sega Saturn, an HP oscilloscope) and for some it’s drop-in, and in a few you have to bodge some lines.
Won’t that negatively impact the life expectancy of the device? FRAM is rated for trillions of reads and, if the SRAM is frequently read, a trillion reads isn’t that much.
The FM1808B and FM1608B might work for you. These are 32Kx8 and 8K×8 FRAM chips with standard SRAM pinouts, in DIP packages. If you don't need a DIP, you have a lot more choices.
The SOIC look like they could work as-is in a gameboy, which (thanks to Pokemon) is the most common request for replacing batteries. The DIPs could be made to work in most NES games too, I suspect.
I have one! Any idea if the PZT cubes are added using the typical photoresist masking/etching or are they placed on die using some other process?
From looking at various patents, I believe they put down a layer of PZT and then etch it into cubes with photolithography. Look at the process diagram at the bottom of my article, step 1128.
Any thoughts on how it compares to Intel Optane NVM? Also is there any particular material you envision as a potential successor for it?